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Thread: Whats with Miroku Winchester

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Whats with Miroku Winchester

    The consensus here on our little isle and on various forums is they are probably one of the most intermittent suppliers in the business the last 6-8 years. One year's particular catalogue will have a great range of configurations and calibres in 92, 73 etc but then you go to order and find half the models arent being made and are referred to the 'new catalogue' where its a bunch of new options again. I missed several I would have liked such as a long round barrel 357 1892 and various takedown models in different barrel lengths. You would think the general interest in quality lever actions, the size and status of both Miroku and Winchester , that they could put out a standard catalogue of production models they actually adhere to for a few years. Anyway, with the world going as it is, I notice our information is that another bunch of models have just been slashed. The 32-20 1892 which I was told last year " only a few were ever done and we are not sure if they are still in production" is not even listed now. Whats it like for you guys right now, do you have the full catalogue available all the time there?
    Last edited by mickbr; 07-11-2020 at 11:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Back in 2002, they made a run of 500, 1892, in 32-20, with 20” octagon barrels, for Davidson’s in Prescott, Arizona. I bought one, and cherish it. I have never seen another one. The fit, finish, and function, is superb. I’ve never seen a catalog from them.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thats them, I'm envious! We had them here as recently as a few years ago. I saw them on winchester australias website as recently as last year, but as mentioned they hadnt sold one for a while.

    Anyone care to take a guess at the business model they are engaging in? It seems to be "pass hat around at the company christmas party and send this cash to Japan with instructions to build whatever the heck they feel like for the next year". Or "this seems to be selling well so lets cancel it , then sneak it into some countries, but not others, in 5 years time"

  4. #4
    Boolit Master



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    They've always been kind of a limited run outfit for production of most models
    Being human is not for sissies.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master



    missionary5155's Avatar
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    Earthquakes maybe have unsettled their profit minds and big waves washed away their desires.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Chill Wills's Avatar
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    They produce a well made rifle. ....Except for the lawyer designed inertia firing pins. I wish the USA would take a chance and restart making American rifles again.
    I am working on a 1886 Winchester Rifle (Made In Japan) pistol grip. Really nice rifle I got new in 1999. It always had light firing pin strikes.
    Just last month it stopped going bang at all.
    Parts are very expensive. Numrich Arms (Gun Parts Corp.) wants $117 + Shipping for a new firing pin.
    Ouch!

    I may try to modify the one I have.

    I think if you see one you like try to buy it on the spot! I have no answer for catalog items that never show up for sale. That is a hard one. It must be a very small market for reproduction American firearms.
    Good luck
    Last edited by Chill Wills; 07-12-2020 at 06:46 PM. Reason: typo
    Chill Wills

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chill Wills View Post
    They produce a well made rifle. ....Except for the lawyer designed inertia firing pins. I wish the USA would take a chance and restart making American rifles again.
    I am working on a 1886 Winchester Rifle (Made In Japan) pistol grip. Really nice rifle I got new in 1999. It always had light firing pin strikes.
    Just last month it stopped going bang at all.
    Parts are very expensive. Numrich Arms (Gun Parts Corp.) wants $117 + Shipping for a new firing pin.
    Ouch!

    I may try to modify the one I have.

    I think if you see one you like try to buy it on the spot! I have no answer for catalog items that never show up for sale. That is a hard one. It must be a very small market for reproduction American firearms.
    Good luck
    I had a japchester 71 did this to me - I modified mine several years ago and it works fine
    Winchester Bob is advertising 1886 solid firing pins for $30 (werent available then and we not allowed to import gun parts anyway)
    Phone call would soon tell ya if these fit (I bet they do)

    heres the offending bits I took out and stashed

    Click image for larger version. 

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    you make a replacement for this part
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    so the entire pin becomes a solid pin - I think I used a piece of grade 8 bolt - and turn a full size extension at the back the same length as the floating piece used to extend out when retracted - so yr insert ends up longer than the floating bit - I used red loctite to fix it (the stuff you need a torch to undo!)

    You might get this gun firing with a good clean (soak the bolt in kerosene for a bit) I think they get gunked up inside the bolt -
    its pretty stupid they made a gun thats used for shooting grizzly bears and just as he charges you get a fail to fire because of lawyer designed "safety" BS that serves no useful purpose .
    The originals couldnt fire out of battery because of Brownings design of the lever and firing pin retraction, and the half cock safety notch was foolproof. I really dont get it!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    Chill Wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post

    heres the offending bits I took out and stashed

    Click image for larger version. 

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    you make a replacement for this part
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    so the entire pin becomes a solid pin - I think I used a piece of grade 8 bolt - and turn a full size extension at the back the same length as the floating piece used to extend out when retracted - so yr insert ends up longer than the floating bit - I used red loctite to fix it (the stuff you need a torch to undo!)
    BINGO - that is exactly right. Those are the pieces (plus small spring under the dogleg part) I spent much time digging out and cleaning, stoning and returning only to have the problem not solved. Everything moves free now. So the problem must be the little dogleg not retracting under the hammer blow for other reasons than fit, finish, and cleanliness/oil. It works fine when I push on it with a punch from the rear. I get plenty of pin protrusion out in front of the bolt face.

    All the time yesterday I was working on it, I was redesigning a work around for it in my head and came up with basically the same fix as you present here. Also, one other fix may be to just remove the dogleg and leave it as is. Then there would be no emergence brake as the lawyers wanted in case of a loaded, cocked and dropped on it's hammer rifle, and the half-cock notch, such as it is, would be the safety on the loaded chamber.
    When I get a chance in the coming week I will tear it down again and install the new solid link (3/16 diameter), loctite plus cut a notch for the rear retaining pin. A bit of belt and suspenders to keep it in.

    Great minds think alike.
    Chill Wills

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Mickbr,
    Sorry I drove your thread into the weeds.
    I hope you get some answers to the Winchester questions.
    Chill Wills

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chill Wills View Post
    Mickbr,
    Sorry I drove your thread into the weeds.
    I hope you get some answers to the Winchester questions.
    My post was just a having a vent. If the thread has veered onto a technically useful subject, thats all to the good.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chill Wills View Post
    BINGO - that is exactly right. Those are the pieces (plus small spring under the dogleg part) I spent much time digging out and cleaning, stoning and returning only to have the problem not solved. Everything moves free now. So the problem must be the little dogleg not retracting under the hammer blow for other reasons than fit, finish, and cleanliness/oil. It works fine when I push on it with a punch from the rear. I get plenty of pin protrusion out in front of the bolt face.

    All the time yesterday I was working on it, I was redesigning a work around for it in my head and came up with basically the same fix as you present here. Also, one other fix may be to just remove the dogleg and leave it as is. Then there would be no emergence brake as the lawyers wanted in case of a loaded, cocked and dropped on it's hammer rifle, and the half-cock notch, such as it is, would be the safety on the loaded chamber.
    When I get a chance in the coming week I will tear it down again and install the new solid link (3/16 diameter), loctite plus cut a notch for the rear retaining pin. A bit of belt and suspenders to keep it in.

    Great minds think alike.
    Blimey! it never occurred to me to just throw that dog leg bit away!! That proly woulda worked ..............I forgot that little spring - I used it to convert an army colt to coil hand spring - my 71 also has a rebound spring up front of the firing pin - I left it in place. ----------you've got this under control --good stuff.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickbr View Post
    My post was just a having a vent. If the thread has veered onto a technically useful subject, thats all to the good.
    Mickbr I reckon some winchester execs must have took root in the miroku factory - winchester been trying to commit commercial hari-kari since about 1960 - they sure went to a lot of trouble to drive that company into the ditch - I usedta refer to the 1964 --1974 winnies as "winchester's diecast and plastic period" - that old sayin "there nothin on this earth cant be done a little cheaper and a little worse if ya put yr mind to it" .....so they got the jap factory makin good guns then stuffed up the sales end of it ........

  13. #13
    Boolit Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    One big problem I see, is that the Miroku rifles will always be competing against the original New Haven rifles which are still mostly common and reasonably priced. In fact, it may be easier and cheaper to buy an original than to wait on Winoku to make the one you want.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, .30 WCF, .45-70 Gov't.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    .

    I would keep in mind that most manufacturer don't continuously produce every model in their catalogue all the time.

    Guns are typically made in production "runs", where the machinery has been reset to produce whatever model - and the frequency of any particular model's production run depends upon the demand (i.e., wholesale orders) for that model.

    Larger manufacturers usually have several different production lines, smaller manufacturers not so much.

    Ergo, some gun models are made much more often than other models, with "dealer specials (Davidson's, Lipsky's, etc, etc) produced only when a limited order of whatever is contracted (and paid in advance) for.

    .
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  15. #15
    Boolit Bub Prairie Cowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by missionary5155 View Post
    Earthquakes maybe have unsettled their profit minds and big waves washed away their desires.
    According to an Anime movie I saw, Japan was destroyed by earthquakes and sank into the ocean after Mount Fuji erupted.
    That is known to disrupt production.
    Quite a bit worse than the Godzilla infestations of the 1960s.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy MrHarmless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prairie Cowboy View Post
    According to an Anime movie I saw, Japan was destroyed by earthquakes and sank into the ocean after Mount Fuji erupted.
    That is known to disrupt production.
    Quite a bit worse than the Godzilla infestations of the 1960s.
    I don't wanna derail anything, I just want to point out that I never expected to see an anime referenced on this forum. Hat's off to you.
    Member of the FAIP Mafia
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  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy Randy Bohannon's Avatar
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    You have to grab the rifle you want when you see it, Winchester/Miroku does quite a few limited runs of rifles you would not expect that are non Lipsey’s or Davidson’s. The 24” tapered octagon barrel and P/G plain wood and blued is an example of non cataloged run of rifles with only a handful made.

  18. #18
    Boolit Mold
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    Hey Mickbr, I have 3 of them Japanese made rifles, 45 Colt, 357 mag and 45/70.
    They are certainly better made than my other original Winchester’s.
    I’d love a new 92 in 25/20.
    I’m ok with peep sights but unfortunately I really need a scope these days.
    Check them out, they are great value and quality.

    Regards

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Jap firing pin repair

    If ever you have the problem I did with the firing pin - This repair did fix the problem.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Chill Wills; 07-18-2020 at 01:43 AM.
    Chill Wills

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    I chose to turn up a close fitting solid replacement for all the lawyer parts. The last picture shows the grade 8 bolt used. It was then cut off long. Red Loctite and cross pined to retain it. Then it was just a mater of contouring the back end for fit and function.

    Today I tested it with 25 or so loaded rounds with no failure to fire. (and good full sized dents in the fired primers) Yea!
    Last edited by Chill Wills; 07-18-2020 at 01:49 AM.
    Chill Wills

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BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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GC Gas Check