Cheddite or Fiocchi? Which is more versatile?

[bakerjw]

I am new to shotshell reloading and doing all of the pertinent research before moving forward. I also do have the Lyman guide and Alliant has a pretty good guide as well.
Although I am focused more on 00 buckshot rounds ATM, or local gun club has a trap range where I might start shooting on occasion.

It seems that Cheddite and Fiocchi are the hulls that are most widely available these days. Any preferences? Advantages of one over the other?

[trapper9260]

I do not know much about those hulls . I do know that some have European Primers that is bigger then the US 209 are. Also I do not have my notes with me , that you can use Federal data on some of them. I found out. For me I use what I got and use it, Lyman manual have the data on 00 buck shot.

[dannyd]

they are about the same and are mostly the only new hulls you can buy. These people are who I get my information and supplies from. They are slow to ship.

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/

They also have a tool that make the primer pocket to fit any primer.

If you cast try the Lee Slugs they are fun to shot.

[Joby]

Yes it Seems straight wall hulls are mostly what’s left behind at many locations nowadays. Claybuster has a nice wad CB6100-12 that’s perfect for most all import or straight wall hulls. And there is load data on their website and commonly in the bag of wads. I have transitioned to lighter loads many years ago to get the bride into shotgunning due to the lighter recoil. And found them to be enjoyable myself. And now the kiddos shoot a ton of them also. I typically load 3/4 oz. in 12 and 20 gauge for trap, skeet, sporting clays And international trap. They break clays just fine if you do your part. You can miss with 2 ounces of shoot just as easy as 3/4 oz.
nonetheless find your way and enjoy. JS.

[rking22]

Answering your question, there isn’t any practical difference between them or Rio or most any other European hull. Basewads vary do capacity can vary but that is really only about component stack up for a good crimp. You can use estate data but will need to use the European primers as Win and CCI will be loose and actually fall out. I consider that a good thing as they are much less money and work just fine.
If you have a skeet and trap range nearby you can probably find all those you want as they are considered trash by most target shooters. Also loading standard 12ga trap loads is of dubious value given cost vs factory loads. Anyway, you will find lots of Remington gun clubs in the trash as well, and they are a MUCH better hull for the reloader.
As stated above, 3/4 and 7/8 12 ga loads will break trap and skeet targets just fine, bunker is limited to 7/8 oz! Now loading those is cost effective as they are economical of shot and reduce recoil substantially. I don’t have any experience with buckshot so have no input on that topic. Have fun, keep your eyes on the bird!

[6pt-sika]

I’ve got more than a few RST (Chedditte) 10 gauge hulls that load fine with 209 primers . Matter of fact the only primer I’ve ever seen that Chedditte sells is a 209 . Few years back the Fiochi 616 primers were cheaper and a friend bought a couple thousand for his 28 gauge loads and forced them in the old AA 28 gauge hulls . He’s just about out of them and will either need to get more 616’s or discard his hulls . To each his own , but if I were going to start loading I’d buy a flat of WIN AA or REM STS Skeet or trap loads . Then shoot them up and reload the hulls . Those two hulls are about as versatile as you can get in today’s market . Matter of fact the only hulls I load in the 12 , 20 , 28 and 410 are AA or STS with the loan exception of 12 gauge 3” hulls .

[megasupermagnum]

I'm guessing we are talking 12 gauge here? The following is only my opinion, so take it for what it is.

In 12 gauge, The very best hulls for full power hunting loads is Federal once piece ".090" basewad" hunting hulls. Bar none. Just as good if you can find them are Activ hulls. For target hulls, the only thing that makes sense anymore is the Remington STS. They are the ONLY hull of any gauge or brand that still uses a brass head. Now I've reloaded as many European hulls as the next guy, and they work. I've loaded thousands of Rio's, but they are worth exactly what I paid for them, nothing. If you get them free, they work. Cheddite and Fiocchi are made be different companies, but are essentially the same design. I've found all of the Euro hulls have poorer quality plastic, and their heads are much more prone to rust than Federal. They do work, but for hunting loads I only get one loading. Federals I can duck hunt, pick them out of the water, and still get 3-4 loadings before the plastic gives up. Remington also makes the gun club, which is a pretty good hull. The plastic is good, and they don't seem to rust as bad as the Euro's.

For 10 gauge, you kind of have to take what you can get. For what BPI asks for Cheddite, they make absolutely no sense. For an extra dollar, you can buy Federal, which is better in every way. In all gauges, Federal usually has the most load data for hunting loads. My favorite is the Remington, and they seem to last a good long time. I've got some with 8 loadings on them now. Winchester's are rarer, and seem to have limited data.

In 16 gauge, all hulls are very similar in design, except for the Federal with its paper base. They have similar volumes, except the Remington's are cut a little shorter than 2 3/4", something like 2 5/8". Federal again has the most load data. For new hulls, they only options are Rio, Cheddite, or Fiocchi. I see no reason to use the Rio's. I do load Fiocchi, and they are decent hulls. They do have slightly larger diameter inside, which may or may not be useful. They do rust quickly.

I don't mess with 20 gauge much. The 20 gauge Rio's I got for free were already splitting, so I never tried them. The Federals are again a paper basewad design, lots of data for them, and they work well. The Remington STS is great in 20 gauge.


I'll quickly touch on the primer problem. Current American hulls all standardized on a 209 primer of .241". Most European hulls like Cheddite and Fiocchi use a similar style primer of .242" diameter. Rio for whatever reason went way out there with a 209 primer of .245" diameter. Now .242" to .241" may sound small, but American primers will just fall right out of those hulls. If you are willing to do the work, you can resize these pockets to accept American primers, which is what I do. I see no reason at all to hunt down a foreign primer, just because Ballistic Products wants to sell out the American reloading market. Rio's on the other hand are not as good. I have managed to resize those pockets too, but it is more difficult, and not worth it. Honestly, even if you get Rio hulls for free, they are not worth loading. The one exception would be if your local store for whatever weird reason had Rio 209 primers in stock. I have never seen Rio primers before.

[rking22]

Nobel sport primers will fit the Rio as well as some of the other European hulls, and they are cheap. That’s important when you shoot 10,000 plus a year!. As a lover of 16 and 410s, I load what I find so keep a case of those on hand. The new 12ga AA is garbage, lengths vary and they only load a few times till they won’t hold a crimp. Nothing like the great old compression formed AA. Rem STS is the best out there in 12, 20 and 28 maybe 410 as well but so rare I can’t really say. Great but not enough better than the gun clubs I get for free for me to buy them. The absolute worst hull is the Winchester cheap thing that Walmart sells in 100 pacs, can’t remember the name but it’s yellow and about as strong as a kids balloon. I have seen them rip 1/4 of the hull off firing a factory load, leave them in the trash.

[bakerjw]

A lot of very good information presented her.
It is very much appreciated!
Thanks.

[dverna]

I used to load 20k 12 ga year. The "cheap" hulls were loaded once and I used them for doubles...shoot and pitch. The only "cheap" hull that I would load multiple times was the Gun Club. Buying those cheap hulls makes no sense to me. Go to a skeet or trap club and they will give you all you can possibly want. You need to check they do not have junk in them from sitting on the ground and IMHO that is not worth the effort....but I loaded a lot at one time. BTW, the Federal Top Gun and Estate hulls have (had) a paper base wad so be cautious of two things. First is moisture...just let them dry a few weeks; and the second is the base burns away so multiple loadings are not recommended even if the hull does not split.

The best 12 ga hull is the STS and the best 28 ga hull is the AA. Those are the gauges I have the most experience with.

[Hogtamer]

Forget the RIO unless you want to buy different sized primers. Regular 209 primers will work in cheddite and I THINK Fiocchi. Blood Trail would know about the Fiocchi.

[megasupermagnum]

American 209's will not fit in any European hull.

Oh, I forgot all about the Federal Top gun. I've only dealt with the 12 gauge versions, so that is all I know. There have been at least 3 versions of the Top gun over the years. The first was a paper basewad hull that took an American 209 primer. People don't like paper basewad hulls, but I never had an issue. These first version hulls were not as good as the old Gold Medal. The Gold Medal had good plastic, fair volume, and a brass head. They are becoming rare now, but the Gold Medal is a fantastic option for reloading. The original Top gun was ok too, but data is limited. These hulls should be stamped made in USA.

The second version of the Top Gun only lasted for a few years. Externally, they still are similar to the old Top Gun, but only say 12 ga Federal on the head. Internally these have a tall, white plastic basewad, and accept Rio 209 primers. These hulls are Rio hulls, made for Federal, nothing more. They are not worth reloading.

Now confusingly, about 2 years ago, Federal started making the Top Gun hull again. None of their hulls say made in USA anymore, due to a legal conflict, but the hulls are made in Anoka, MN. This version has a medium height plastic basewad, that looks very similar to the Rio's. You have to cut them apart to see the difference. If they come in the new style, all blue box, they are the new style hull. Someone shoots a lot of these at my range. I'm up to about 3000 of them I got for free. These hulls, like all others but the STS, have a plated steel head. Thankfully, these don't seem to rust as bad as the European hulls. They do take an American 209 primer, which is another way to tell them from the Rio versions. The earliest versions had a low, silver colored head. The newer ones have all been a medium height, brass colored head. These have nearly identical volume to the Gold Medal hulls, and can be loaded with that data. The only downside I have found, is that the plastic on these Top Gun hulls is not durable. They are very similar to the Cheddite or Fiocchi's. They only last a couple firings. They are also not very durable for buckshot loads, and can tear badly. Anything in a wad has been fine.

[Hogtamer]

regular 209 hulls work fine in Cheddite, just came in from sizing and priming a hundred for more buckshot.

[megasupermagnum]

regular 209 hulls work fine in Cheddite, just came in from sizing and priming a hundred for more buckshot.

You mean you primed American hulls with Cheddite primers? Other than a tight fit, it should work. It doesn't work the other way around though.

[farmbif]

megasupermqgnum makes a good point about federal hulls. they are very versatile and straight walled. data for all sorts of loads is easy to find for them.
I have at least a grocery sack full of rio 20ga hulls and have yet to have a problem with primers not fitting I'm pretty sure the base is real brass and not plated brass p or washed or whatever some of the newer hulls are using. there's not as much load data as there is for Remington federal or winchester. I've found limited data for Fiochhi's too and what data I have found some of the wads they call for seem to be unobtainable. I've found the new Remington smooth sided 12 ga shells will reload almost as many times as the old winchester AA's
what I've looked for when buying new hulls; are the bases real brass, is it straight wall, is there lots of load data so I can use wads primers and powder I already have.

[megasupermagnum]

No, Rio has never made a brass head shell. The older Gold Medal hulls were brass head until they were discontinued about 3-4 years ago. The new Gold Medal Grand hulls are NOT, they have steel heads. I don't know when the AA's switched, but they have been steel for a while now, likely when they switched from molded to the two piece hulls. Other than the Gold Medal's, no straight wall hull has had a brass head in decades.

The one and ONLY hull still made with a brass head is the Remington STS. Nothing else is. It is a shame shotgun shells have come to be essentially disposable. I wish longer all brass shells of thicker sizes, and safe for smokeless were available. Plastic has been working well for 70 years or so, but there is only so much you can do. An all brass case, with even more volume, and a near infinite case life would be fantastic.

[farmbif]

I guess I'm going way back, all of my shot shells are at least 7-8 years old, I'm still have some aa's from the 70's