427103 Weight?

[Brian Albin]

I have read Lyman's mold 427103 described as 350 grs and as 400 grs. Is this one of Lyman's molds available in two weights? Or is one of these writings in error?

thank you, Brian

[Thin Man]

I just looked into a historic mold description chart for this mold number and read how the 427103 mold was designed to drop boolits from the mold at .426" diameter and 365 grain weight. These boolits were designed for a Russian .42 caliber rifle. This is the only data I could locate for this mold so there may be other, later information on this mold. Hope this helps your search.

[jrmartin1964]

In the earliest Ideal handbooks (1891-1896), what came to be No.427103 is listed with a weight of 370 grains when cast from pure lead. From 1897 to 1904, after the introduction of Ideal's numbering system to their moulds, its weight was listed at 365 grains but no alloy specified. This design disappeared from Ideal handbooks after 1904. This was a round-nose, plain-base designed for the .42 Russian Berdan rifle cartridge.

In 1950 cherry number 103 was re-used for C. M. O'Neil's round-nose, gas check design for the .404 Jeffries cartridge, listed as No.424103, and had a reported weight of 400 grains when cast of No.2 alloy. This one seems to have been dropped after 1953. It actually appears as if this might be the original #103 with a slight reduction in diameter and the addition of a gas check shank to the base, which would account for the additional 30-35 grains weight.

Oddly, No.427103 is shown in Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook from 1973, without gas check (as the original 1891-1904 design) but weighing 400 grains in No.2 alloy (as the updated 1950-1953 version).

Is everyone sufficiently confused now?

Jim

[Brian Albin]

It sounds like Lyman themselves got confused and started writing O'Neil's 400 grs weight after they dropped his bullet and reintroduced their old plan base bullet.
It was in a Lyman publication that I read of the 400 grs weight.
I read somewhere that this was Postell's bullet for the 41 Swiss.

I thank Jim Martin for all the good information.

By the way, who was Postell? I have not done much of an internet search, but what I have done has not turned up anything.

Brian

[jrmartin1964]

Postell was J. C. Postell (1854-1819), a captain of 1st Cavalry, Georgia Volunteers, and marksman of note in the 1890s. Although his name is associated with Lyman's No.457132, "The Postell Bullet", he was not the designer (that honor belongs to another target shooter of the late 19th Century, George R. Russell).

As the original No.427103 was catalogued standard for the .42 Russian Berdan, and was discontinued by 1904 with no clear association with Postell, I would not place any great confidence in rumors, in print or otherwise, of it being Postell's design for the .41 Swiss... which was, of course, a rimfire and not readily reloadable. Both Postell and Russell had bern deceased many decades before readily reloadable variants of the big Swiss rimfire came into vogue.

Jim

[Brian Albin]

Thank you, Jim!
Very helpful.

Brian

[fgd135]

Old post, but more info. I have three versions of the 427103, all slightly different. One has two grease grooves and casts right at 370 grains in 100% Pb; another has three grease grooves and casts at 365 gr. Both have beveled bases and cast at .428" A third 427103 has a different nose shape, very tapered, two lube grooves, and a gas shank base. It casts at 342 grains, and is .426". None have any special markings differentiating them. I've shot thousands of the first two designs in my Russian Berdan II rifles for over twenty five years. I use the third mold, sans checks, in my Italian Vetterlis.
Makes me wonder if this mold design was a custom or semi custom version of the 427103.

[Brian Albin]

I thank you, for the information. Quite interesting.

Brian

Oh, and Happy New Year to you.