Reloading die's Lee vs Redding

[rockrat]

I use Lee, RCBS,, Redding and Dillon dies. Mainly Lee's are used for pistol, but I do have some Lee rifle dies and have been happy with them. Did have one 30-30 set that really sized my brass down way too much, but found a used set at a gun show and that Lee set has been great. I prefer Redding followed closely (very closely) by RCBS, then Lee. My Dillons I got great deals on, otherwise I would probably have Reddings.

customer service by RCBS has been outstanding, the few times I have needed it!!

[John Boy]

For starters, I reload smokeless and black powder for calibers from 22 LR up to 50-70 plus several metrics. The only caliber die that that will reload the 44-40 better than a Lee is a RCBS. My die inventory of 55, of all the brands that I have no issues with are:
* 32 - Lee
* 9 - CH4D, the most expensive dies purchased
* 6 - RCBS, including the 32-40 Cowboy die
* 3 - Dillon
* 1 - Hornady
* 3 - Lyman
* 1- Western

[mto7464]

I have both the redding Pro (progressive lacks the expander) and the Lee in 9mm that i use on my dillon. I prefer the Redding sizer. It seems slicker then the lee so less effort is required. For seating the bullet I use the Lee. I have had several "custom" stems made for various cast boolits which makes seating a little more consistant. For reducing the flare I have found I favor the redding. In the end lee dies will work fine. Only reason I have the redding is I got a great deal on them or I may have never bought them.

[dragon813gt]

I buy Lee first. If they don’t work I will buy something else. If Lee doesn’t make it, like Lyman M-Dies, I buy another brand. I let results on target determine how well the dies are doing. I don’t shoot for competition and I’m not chasing tenths of an inch. There have been only a few times where I had to buy another brand besides Lee. One was for converting 7.62 brass to 358. Even though Lee’s expander was tapered it was the slip fit design of it that caused issues. A Redding die solved this issue.

[1hole]

A short essay in precision reloading logic:

First, understand that accuracy doesn't come in a box. Everyone's "favorite" die brand is simply the one that gives him the best accuracy he ever got from his most accurate rifle. Bad thing about asking on the web what others think is "best" is if you think our favorite die brand (or anyone else's) will be your best brand you're likely wrong because individual dies vary; if you buy a die set that works very well for me it's my good luck but it's not always good for you. And it doesn't matter how pretty or costly something is if it does what you need it to do!

I've made chamber casts of 30 to 40 FL sizers of all brands and find there's as much internal difference between sizer dies of the same brand as there is between brands. And seaters are also inconsistent. But, if your bullets aren't seating straight the first thing to check is the cases; no seater can make straight ammo in lousy necks. Consistent accuracy demands straight ammo and common variations in individual seaters are very significant.

Both Forster and Redding's "Competition"/"BR" seaters are, IMHO, dependably very good to excellent. Only they have spring loaded full case length sleeves that closely mimic BR hand dies in that they align both case and bullet well before seating starts. Some other brands have costly seaters with short, loosely fitted sliding bullet guides that they label "competition" but none of them align the case bodies and, in my experience, no matter what they are called their loose fitting sleeves offer no average bullet concentricity/accuracy advantage over conventional seaters, including Lee's.

Reloader hopes of correcting tilted bullets by starting seating and progressively turning the case while slowly seating deeper sounds good but, in my measured experience, that's hopeless. I've found that a bullet that starts canted continues canted because seating stems are simply not stiff enough or tightly fitted enough to correct an already deformed neck-to-bullet junction.

I find that Lee's simple Dead Length Seaters - used correctly - perform at the top levels of average concentricity of all conventional seaters (ie, everything but Forster and Redding). Anyone who wants to challenge me about that first needs to do his own concentricity tests on a good number of dies while using known good cases.

I choose the best individual sizer and best individual seater I can find for each cartridge I load for (they rarely come from the same die box) and I don't care what color or how shiney they are. Then I select and process my best cases to make my best rifle ammo.

A lot of careful work goes into my load development too; perfect dies and perfect cases filled with lousy loads equals perfect ammo that produces lousy accuracy, every time.

Used properly, I find no average difference in the target performance of handgun dies.

Bottom line: Determined individual delusions aside, accuracy can't be bought across a counter in a single color box at any price. All of our dies are usually well made (yeah, manufacturing mistakes do get made but if we get a defective tool and don't contact the maker to fix it, it's our fault, not his) and they all give us good to very good performance.

But no single die set, or press, or anything else, can make ammo that stacks holes in a target unless the firearm, the reloader, the range, the shooting bench AND the shooter are all good enough for that; few are. Few rifles have the capacity to make bug hole groups and the loose nut behind the recoil pad matters too.

Micrometer seating die stems are impressive to look at but they do nothing for the finished product, all they do is make it easier for the user to rapidly obtain a specific OAL. I have a few mic-head seaters and find I really don't need 'em but seems a lot of people do, so paying for high priced micrometer stems is a choice the individual buyer needs to make for himself. (I am a handloader, not a "set a die once, lock the set screw and forget it" reloader. Cases work harden and change slightly as they are reused so I set my dies exactly where I want them each time they get used.)

[onelight]

Good post 1hole

[DonH]

One poster said, "Ask what size groups they are shooting." This is akin to an old adage from racing, "The Bullsh*t stops when the green flag drops"! A military rife chambered to reliably chamber grungy ammo will not notice what brand/quality dies your rounds are loaded in. Other factors like fit to the chaber/throat/ease probably matter more. I think this also applies tho to a lesser degree in mass produced rifle chambers. When entering the realm of rifles built for top level benchrest competitors and to only a bit lower degree rifles used by top level across-the-course and long range competitors, EVERYTHIG matters! Even there only a small percentage of shooters will detect minute changes. This "principle" was demonstrated to me by high level NRA 2700 pistol shooters shooting smaller groups one-handed than the same gun produced when fired from Ransom rest. Some have got it; most of us not so much.
The foregoing does not mean I should not use Redding or Forster dies if that makes me more CONFIDENT in my loading/shooting. Nor does it mean others are wrong for using only Lee. That's their choice, just don't be poking me if I prefer something else. But before making too-extree statements go to a national BR or long range match ad see how many high finishers use your brand of choice.
Another principle I have learned the hard way, "Just because I can't do a thing does not mean noone can do it!"

[welderboy44]

I am not a great shot, but i sure like pulling the trigger. I only load pistol rounds and Lee dies have worked great for me. I have Lee, RCBS and Hornady in 45 colt since that is my favorite cartridge to shoot. All 3 brands work fine for my lack of shooting prowess. I usually go back to the Lee dies for the ease of using the powder thru expanding die on my Lee Classic Turret press. Since I know my limitations pulling the trigger, I am satisfied with results from all 3 brands. I own 4 Lee presses and one old Pacific single stage. Sometimes I like to use my Lee cast iron single stage just to slow down and enjoy myself. I own 5 Lee pistol molds and am totally satisfied with those. I am a bullet powdercoater.
I would like to say thank you for all the knowledge from all of the folks that contribute here. I have learned so much just by being quiet and reading y'alls posts. Thanks for letting me join and learn.

[USSR]

Happily living a Lee-free existence.

Don

[onelight]

What switched me to Lee dies for my handgun loading was loading on Lee Progressive presses I wanted to use the auto disk PM on the 1000 so at first I bought just the Lee neck expanding through powder die to use with my RCBS
and Lyman 3 die sets and loaded on those for many years when I switched to a progressive that would accept 4 dies for separate seating and crimp I already had used the carbide FCD on 9 mm and wanted to use that die on some other auto pistol rounds so I ordered a 4 die pistol set for .40 after using them I found I preferred the way the bullet seating depth adjustment on the seating die and crimp adjustment on the FCD worked I also liked the pro auto disk powder measure especially on the LCT press and I discovered that what I loaded shot just as well for me as what I loaded on anything else so I have for the most part replaced all my other brands with Lee for hand gun.
Almost all my rifle loading is on a single stage press now with the exception of 223 and I use Lee ,rcbs ,Lyman and Redding because that is what I have. I have loaded a little on a Dillon and the Dillon dies have some nice features and seem to be well made as does all Dillon equipment I have used.
They all work and there are things I like and don't like about most brands . Some of the cartridges I load on progressive or the turret press I use mixed brands of dies in the stations to get the results I want.
If you want some of the nicest dies made get the Redding if you want the most bang for your buck get the Lee at the range with 9 mm and 45 colt you are way better shot than I am if you see a difference on paper .

[1hole]

Don, if you're happy without Lee, I'm happy for you.

[bedbugbilly]

Chevy sedan - $22,000.00 Mercedes Benz - $65,000.00. They'll both get you to the same destination.

You mention 9mm and then 45 Colt. I use the Lee 4 die set for loading 9mm - never have had an issue with the dies or the finished product. 45 Colt is about one of the easiest cartridges to load IMHO. My set of dies for that is a hodgepodge - a Lee carbide FL die - a Lyman M die neck expander - a Lyman DA seamier/crimp for a roll crimp - if I want a taper crimp, I use an old CH 45 ACP taper crimp die. All I load is my cast - .452 or .454 depending on the mold I'm casting in. I FL size my 45 Colt/45 Schofield brass if new Starline or "range brass" that I have purchased and after shooting, just neck size them the length of the seating depth - they all shoot very well.

Boils down to personal preference I guess and how much you want to spend?

[HangFireW8]

I'd rather ask them what size groups they are shooting.

Once they throw away the groups with unexplained flyers, you get a useless answer.

[pcmacd]

Insult me if you will.
My experience of Lee dies will not change.
Lee is a INEXPENSIVE way to start. I've even bought a Lee die set in the past. A set for .32S&W, they were a mix of .32ACP & .32S&W Long. They were too long to crimp a bullet into the case.
Called Lee C.S. ; they suggested I BUY a .32ACP Taper Crimp die. Wasted more money on that. It WAS TOO SHORT TO CRIMP also.
I even tried their fcd. Too bad I bought a .44-40 and Lee put a .44Mag into the package. Lee C.S. didn't believe me and refused an exchange.
Fortunetly GRAF & SONS took it back. But had no .44-40 fcd in a correctly marked package.

So maybe it is just me, but I have a reason.

And I do use Lee tools, the decapping rod & base in both large and small have given great service for more the 45yrs.
The hand auto prime worked well, until they wore out. Two of them.
The RCBS version has lasted 30+yrs.

Their warranty stinks too. Only two years and you better have saved the receipt.

Lee has replaced the decap rod on my "unbreakable" decap die at least a half dozen times. A friend gave me the Lee 10# bottom pour pot. It rusted out; Lee replaced the pot insert for free. Nobody has ever enquired about a receipt.

They really do irritate me, though when they tell users of their 6PPC die set to "drill out their flash holes" so the decap rod will fit.... They don't know squat about the 6PPC if they are making that recommendation!

[charlie b]

Lee was not a benchrest guy so not surprised to see they lack the knowledge in that area.

If you are loading for 6PPC I'd expect to see a set with Wilson, Forster and/or Redding competition dies. Along with coax and arbor presses. I've seen a guy shoot well at a bench rest match with Lee stuff, but, it isn't that common. When my 6BRA barrel gets in the que I will probably go with the Forster custom full length die and Wilson seater.

[Texas by God]

I like the features of Lee's handgun dies- like the way a Lyman 55 fits in the PTE die with a little electrical tape on the threads. Or a Lee funnel if you're using Lee powder scoops. Or like Lee intended- an Auto Disk measure. I've never had a bad Lee die set. Even the RGB dies for rifle have been great and they were $20 for the set at the most.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[charlie b]

Once they throw away the groups with unexplained flyers, you get a useless answer.

If you question the voracity of what is posted, then when someone measures concentricity to .001" you get a useless answer as well.

[prs]

When my Lee equipment fails, I will toss it and get something else. Has not happened yet, but only loading since 1976. I do have some other brands of dies as lead bullets have some special needs.

prs

[Taterhead]

not exactly what your asking but, if you can find Lyman deluxe carbide 4 die set in black box they are excellent and include "M" die. the difference in lee sizing die is center stem primer punch is held by friction rather than threaded.

Good advice, but I would add that Redding and RCBS expanders are also M profile expanders.

Regarding the Lee de-cap assemblies, that is one "feature" that is a major turnoff for me. In theory, it is supposed to give way if encountering a Berdan-primered brass. In practice it doesn't really work. It shouldn't take patience and two wrenches to torque down a simple de-cap assembly.

[ddixie884]

I'm going to give my opinion and it is worth just what you paid for it. I use a few lee dies and I am happy with the results I get. I'm really glad I could buy Lee .455 Eley dies for cheap. I also appreciate the better finish in and out of the few more expensive dies I have been able to accumulate. I am really glad useful dies are available to beginners and folks on a budget. We live in a great country and are free to make our own decisions............