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Thread: Smelting Question

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Smelting Question

    First, thank you for allowing me to join the group. Secondly, a quick question. I was trying to smelt about 100lbs of linotype into ingots. There was a lot of mush on the surface. I'm sure it wasn't dross but can't seem to get it back into the lead. I did flux but possibly not enough, and could it be temperature? I'm using a turkey fryer and cast iron pot. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Boolit Bub
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    Every time I've melted linotype it's been super dirty. I've always thought it might be the ink that was left on it?

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Don't melt lino! Keep it in it's native "lines-o-type" format....if it's not too late for you. That PROVES it is genuine lino and not some "soup mix" melted into ingots.....if you ever want to sell it. I have several hundred pounds of lino....all neatly packed in boxes in their ORIGINAL format. Just grab a strip when you need it or break off a length to sweeten your casting pot.

    But do NOT ever melt it into ingots! I know, melting stuff is fun, but resist the urge with LINO!

    bangerjim

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by bangerjim View Post
    Don't melt lino! Keep it in it's native "lines-o-type" format....
    Ditto, have to agree with bangerjim.

    Don
    NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
    NRA Life Member

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    The silvery mush is antimony and you do not want to skim that off. Raise the heat and keep stirring it until it mixes back in.
    "If everyone is thinking the same thing it means someone is not thinking"

    "A rat became the unit of currency"

  6. #6
    Boolit Master redhawk0's Avatar
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    I smelted down all my lino into ingots...For me its easy to store...and I have no intention of ever selling it.

    Anyway....give it some more heat....stir, stir, stir....flux with pine sawdust at least 3 times...keep stirring...then a marble size glob of bees wax and stir it again (light it with a wood match to keep it from smoking too much).

    Whatever is on the top after that...skim it off. (keep it in a bucket and melt it again in another batch...there may still be some good stuff in it).

    What you're seeing is the Antimony separating from the lead. A little higher temp should help. Don't be afraid to heat it too much...I highly doubt you could get it to a dangerous vapor state...that's pretty high.

    redhawk

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  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum. Dont scrimp on the sawdust or wax when fluxing. For wheel weights, I throw probably 3 double handfuls of sawdust on the melt as well as a chunk of wax the size of a good ball for that size of pot. Let it burn down to charcoal and stir it in well, scraping the pots sides and bottom. Then I skim and repeat the flux if it seems dirty still. Otherwise I omit the sawdust and just use wax.

  8. #8
    Banned
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    Welcome to CB Steve Stallings

    IF you are planning on using ALL the Linotype, by all means, smelt it down into a clean more useable form [remember to mark EVERYTHING you smelt such as linotype, COWW (clip-on wheel weights) SOWW (stick-on wheel weights), etc.


    I would re smelt all the linotype you smelted throwing anything you skimmed of back into the pot. (don't worry about getting dirt, rocks in there because they will flux right out.

    I usually flux at least 2 times with pine sawdust (let it get hot then light it and let burn off) mix it in well then either shave some wax into the pot or (I hold the wax over the pot (with gloves) and hold a hot spoon to it letting the wax drip/run in. then mix it into the lead/linotype well.

    These are the tools I use most for smelting from the right; channel locks for moving molds/tilting the pot or ??? Chinese strainer attached to a long handle (for string and skimming the big stuff) small ladle (seldom use) long BBQ spoon (for mixing, dripping wax and final skimming, Large whisk for mixing, spatula for scraping the pot, rounded spoon for skimming, small spot attached to a short wood handle for filling ingot molds, milk jug full of pine sawdust and remains of a candle for fluxing.


    this is what I like my pot to look like when I get done fluxing, skim off the big pieces and save the small stuff for your next smelt (there's still a fair amount of sawdust wax mix in there) or just skim and toss it


    I like to smelt of the back of one of my trailers (make sure the boards under the ingot molds are perfectly level to get even ingots)


    since these pictures were taken I have upgraded to smelting in a modified propane tank.

    ALWAYS wear eye protection, gloves, shoes and protective [COTTON] clothing when smelting or casting

    NEVER put chunks of lead into molten lead!!! IF there is any moisture trapped in it the tinsel fairy will visit and send molten lead everywhere.

    PM with more info to follow

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Now for the reason WHY not to melt linotype strips. Sometimes you will find spacers and blanks in with the actual lines of type. This may not be true linotype but could be anything lead based and when you melt it all together you will end up with a diluted linotype mix. Also, the linotype has been used at least one time and has a tendency to oxidize some of the tin and antimony during the heating process. So if it loses a little bit of the metals every time it is melted, if it is slightly off grade to begin with, it only gets worse through repeated melting and casting into ingots.

    The big advantages of leaving it in the original form it to make sure that it is actually linotype and not some other type of lead alloy. Also it is convenient to weigh out the needed amount to blend with other alloys for a casting alloy of your choice. No matter how careful you plan to be, you will forget and will end up with some mystery metal. It can be very disappointing to realize that you have lost track of expensive linotype which is now mixed somewhere in the rest of your lead stash. Dusty

  10. #10
    Banned

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    I have several hundred linotype cupcakes I poured myself...........no problems making cupcakes here!

  11. #11
    Boolit Mold
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    Wow. Thanks so much for all of the responses. Lots of great information and so much appreciated. I sure asked the right group of people.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    All the spacers I have bought were very hard. They break instead of bending completely over.

    Here is a link to someone who did some analysis of spacer alloy content. They are pretty much the same as Linotype.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...g-Lino-Spacers

    I don’t melt my Lino into ingots simply because it is so easy to weigh small amounts when mixing up a pot.

    I ladle cast. A little bit of dirt and oxide from the Linotype isn’t a big deal. I don’t mind occasionally having to flux. It’s part of the ladle casting process. There ain’t no kitty litter in my pot.

    JM

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by JM7.7x58 View Post
    I don’t melt my Lino into ingots simply because it is so easy to weigh small amounts when mixing up a pot.
    Yep, a little bit of linotype goes a long ways.

    Don
    NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
    NRA Life Member

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Well, I own 3 antique letter presses with over 55 complete fonts (that's over 480# of mono, foundry, and custom-made-for-me lino --- never to be melted down!) of type.....and I can tell you the spacers (called "leading" in the trade) can be anything from almost pure Pb to very hard Pb. Depends on what the shop had on hand at the time they made the spacers. Same goes for lino leading....can be just about anything. I have factory-packaged bundles of new leading from 60 years ago and it is NOT hard. It did not need to be as hard as the type. That is why I will never EVER buy ingots of "lino" because people (not in the know) melt spacers and type all in one pot. They are definitely NOT the same many times.

    Always keep any kind of type separate from the spacers/leading! And never melt any of them down into ingots!

    banger

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    Welcome Steve,

    The one thing that Banger and I agree on is we don’t like to melt down our Linotype into ingots.

    If your spacers bend over completely and don’t break they are soft. If they break then that’s the good stuff.

    Learn how to test your bullets for hardness. Artist Pencils are cheap and give you a general idea of your hardness. A Lee tester, or a cabin tree will be more expensive, but a little more precise.

    One advantage of melting all that Lino in one big batch is that you can then send an ingot to Cast Boolits member BNE and have it analyzed.

    You do need more heat to get through the oatmeal stage.

    Again welcome, and just remember, most of us don’t have faces here, but we all have opinions.

    JM

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Stallings View Post
    First, thank you for allowing me to join the group. Secondly, a quick question. I was trying to smelt about 100lbs of linotype into ingots. There was a lot of mush on the surface. I'm sure it wasn't dross but can't seem to get it back into the lead. I did flux but possibly not enough, and could it be temperature? I'm using a turkey fryer and cast iron pot. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
    I honestly do NOT understand why you would melt your already perfect lino into ingots? I just add the type to my pot, simple, accurate & IO haven't cooked off any of my tin melting it & recasting. Since you are already doing this, flux it like crazy with sawdust.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
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  17. #17
    Boolit Master redhawk0's Avatar
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    Here is the reason I melted mine into ingots.

    I make a 75-125# batch of alloy at a time. I find it easier to count ingots...and weigh them to make the alloy that I want. Once I get my alloy smelted/fluxed....this alloy gets poured into Corncob molds. They fit better into my Lee pot. I just need a little stirring when casting boolits...I don't have to clean it again since my initial ingots were cleaned...then combined in an alloy and cleaned again.

    It works for me...I still have about 140lbs of Lino left from the 350# I got many years ago.

    redhawk

    The only stupid question...is the unasked one.
    Not all who wander....are lost.
    "Common Sense" is like a flower. It doesn't grow in everyone's garden.

    If more government is the answer, then it was a really stupid question. - Ronald Reagan

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    You don't need to use Beeswax to flux, it is too expensive compared to candle wax which fluxes just as well.
    NRA Lifetime member since 1956, NRA Endowment Member. Reloading since 1954. CBA Member Navy Vietnam Veteran USS Intrepid CVA 11

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Most of the guys on here prefer to leave their type metal in its original form to make it easy to identify if the need ever comes up to sell it. Its the only kind of lead that I don't melt and cast into ingots.

    But to try and answer your question, the mush on the top of your melt is probably the good stuff so don't skim it off. You just need to flux and stir more. Pine sawdust works well for this. Flux and stir, flux and stir, over and over until its clear.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check