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Thread: 200 grain gold dot in 44 special

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    200 grain gold dot in 44 special

    Anyone use this bullet and have any pet loads or experience? I know its a bit sacrilegous but I'm asking here as you guys have a good saturation of 44 guys, and am sure a lot of us have taken a walk on the dark side.This bullet gets good reports on youtube, (for what they are worth) Advertised expansion at 850fps but a lot of tests show it getting .65cal expansion down to the high 700's.

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    What type of revolver are you planning to use them out of? I've shot a few cylinders full out of a new BH Flattop Bisley using HS6. I did not chronograph them and they obviously didn't shoot to the same POI as my standard 250 grain cast bullets, but they were accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickbr View Post
    Anyone use this bullet and have any pet loads or experience? I know its a bit sacrilegous but I'm asking here as you guys have a good saturation of 44 guys, and am sure a lot of us have taken a walk on the dark side.This bullet gets good reports on youtube, (for what they are worth) Advertised expansion at 850fps but a lot of tests show it getting .65cal expansion down to the high 700's.
    I have no personal experience with Gold Dots. But they seem to have a good reputation among those who use them.

    That having been said, for a defense load I wouldn't be overly impressed with any 200 grain JHP that expands to 0.65" at, say, 775 ft/s. Predicted penetration for that combination would barely meet FBI minimum standards. On the other hand, a 200 grain .44 caliber wadcutter at the same velocity would have about 50% deeper penetration with only slightly less wound mass. And no walk on the dark side is required.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master



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    I agree with pettypace. I have been shooting .44 Specials for a very long time. My 200 gr. group buy dbl ended w/c gets nearly 900 fps with 5.0 grs. of Red Dot and, on demand, shoots under an inch at 25 yards. Performance on "meat" should be about as good as it gets with very modest recoil.

    FWIW
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    Quote Originally Posted by pettypace View Post
    I have no personal experience with Gold Dots. But they seem to have a good reputation among those who use them.

    That having been said, for a defense load I wouldn't be overly impressed with any 200 grain JHP that expands to 0.65" at, say, 775 ft/s. Predicted penetration for that combination would barely meet FBI minimum standards. On the other hand, a 200 grain .44 caliber wadcutter at the same velocity would have about 50% deeper penetration with only slightly less wound mass. And no walk on the dark side is required.
    Well several 45 ACP bullets meet similar parametres with HP and no problem there pleasing the FBI or anyone else. But this wasnt intended to be a HP vs cast bullet thread. More after any experiences at the range , printed velocities vs chrony reports, and so forth.
    Last edited by mickbr; 07-06-2020 at 02:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DHDeal View Post
    What type of revolver are you planning to use them out of? I've shot a few cylinders full out of a new BH Flattop Bisley using HS6. I did not chronograph them and they obviously didn't shoot to the same POI as my standard 250 grain cast bullets, but they were accurate.
    In the field, a lever action funnily enough. But thought I would ask here being they are a pistol bullet, and the loads will be direct pistol loads.

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    Here is a good video of a gel test with the 200 grain Speer and even a comparison with some cast HP. The underwood 200 gold dot load runs 860 FPS from my 3" GP100
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...6FORM%3DVDRESM

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    Thanks, thats impressive!

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    I use to load up a counter 44 snub air weight hammerless Smith with those gold dots for the evening shift at Ruff's liquor and guns in Flagstaff for the evening shift. Never felt under gunned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOA View Post
    I use to load up a counter 44 snub air weight hammerless Smith with those gold dots for the evening shift at Ruff's liquor and guns in Flagstaff for the evening shift. Never felt under gunned.
    Bought my first handgun there while in College. 6in 357 Mag and a bag of reloads
    I Am Descended From Men Who Would Not Be Ruled

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    Boolit Master MOA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonp View Post
    Bought my first handgun there while in College. 6in 357 Mag and a bag of reloads
    Those gold dots are a good j word for up close work if needed. I increased my inventory of items quite a bit from the years I worked there, and the years I worked at Andy's. I started in cast in a serious way from all the toys I dealt with on a daily basis there.

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    I loaded up the 200 gr GD for my S&W 69 to duplicate factory ammo velocity as i usually use the Saeco #420 200 gr tc for 99% of my 44 shooting , I have 3 other 44 moulds but rarely use them

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    I have no idea what barrel length or velocity you have in mind but for a rifle that 200 grain gold dot may not hold together to well it is designed for 44 special hand gun velocity.

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    I used that in a Rossi snub nose. It worked fine, I shot some water jugs, etc. Performed well as far as I could tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onelight View Post
    I have no idea what barrel length or velocity you have in mind but for a rifle that 200 grain gold dot may not hold together to well it is designed for 44 special hand gun velocity.
    44 special velocities or maybe just into +P territory. Have been watching youtube vids on ballistics gel and seems it expands from 800fps impact( or a bit below) to about .60-.65cal. Through 850-900fps it gets full expansion of about .65 to .70cal and 12-14" penetration. After that expansion remains the same but penetration increases a few inches as the velocity is pushed higher all the way to 1050-1100fps. At 1150-1200fps the jacket separates and fragments but the core is still driving to 14-16".

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickbr View Post
    44 special velocities or maybe just into +P territory. Have been watching youtube vids on ballistics gel and seems it expands from 800fps impact( or a bit below) to about .60-.65cal. Through 850-900fps it gets full expansion of about .65 to .70cal and 12-14" penetration. After that expansion remains the same but penetration increases a few inches as the velocity is pushed higher all the way to 1050-1100fps. At 1150-1200fps the jacket separates and fragments but the core is still driving to 14-16".
    Well you have done your research . Good for you.
    I carry the 200 grain gold dot in my GP100 for certain locations but for all around use I am another that thinks a Keith bullet , mine is the Lyman 429421 is a great all round bullet in 44 special but I also shoot a lot of commercial cast 240 swc Hi-tek coated. I like them all.

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    Yes just watching others hard work on youtube really. What I was after moreso was anyone wanting to share load data. There is data out there in various manuals for 200 grain jacketed bullets. However it varies, oviously depending on whether its a revolver barrel or test barrel etc. Hence was interested in any real world testimonials. This is probably the wrong forum for it- I am more a fan of cast bullets in the calibre myself for the record. This was more a random foray into other areas.

  18. #18
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    Nice article on 44 special gel test with several bullets .
    https://rangehot.com/44-smith-wesson...allistic-test/

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    Quote Originally Posted by onelight View Post
    Nice article on 44 special gel test with several bullets .
    https://rangehot.com/44-smith-wesson...allistic-test/
    Note that the author, Hunter Elliott, never specified just what he used for "ballistic gel." But comparing his penetration data with predicted penetration from the models of Charles Schwartz (Quantitative Ammunition Selection) and/or Duncan MacPherson (Bullet Penetration), it's clear that Elliott was not using the validated 10% ordnance gelatin on which the FBI 12" to 18" penetration standard is based. More likely, Elliott was using Clear Ballistic gel and may have fallen for the same "No Calibration Needed" claim that fooled me not so long ago.

    Roughly speaking, the problem with Clear Ballistic gel is that it's "softer" than 10% ordnance gel. So, bullets penetrate significantly deeper in C-B gel than in 10% ordnance gel (or in the soft tissue that it's supposed to simulate). In my own testing, I found hard-cast, solid bullets consistently penetrated about 25% deeper in C-B gel than the models predicted for 10% ordnance gelatin.

    The problem is even worse for expanding hollow point bullets than for solids. Not only is the C-B gel "soft" on penetration, but it's also "soft" on bullet expansion. And because the bullet does not expand as much in C-B gel, the smaller bullet diameter gives even more penetration in the C-B gel than it would have had in 10% ordnance gelatin. Put another way, what appears to be ideal expansion (whatever that is) in C-B gel, might actually be over-expansion and resulting under-penetration in 10% ordnance gel.

    Given that, I question the author's conclusion that "the Hornady Critical Defense and Glaser Safety Slug performed very well as a defensive round..." Neither comes very close to meeting the FBI minimum penetration standard.

  20. #20
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    Well the clear gel may not meet professional testing standards but it is probably more representative than water , dirt , wet magazines or any of the other test mediums people use , lots of information can be found on the popular duty ammunition but not much on 44 special.
    And as far as I am concerned any gel is a poor substitute for flesh bone and blood but it is probably the best practical substitute. It at least gives you a way to compare bullet performance in gel. If I have to shoot through 12 to 18" of muscle to get to the good parts I need a much bigger gun
    I do like penetration more than expansion but I feel some situations require a compromise , well I guess most situations for CC guns do.

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