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Thread: speed?

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master
    white eagle's Avatar
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    speed?

    In a 44 magnum with boolits over 250 gr and under 325 gr how much do you think speed,or pushing the load has in the accuracy of the load.
    Do you find that a 44 mag does better in accuracy when you get the speed up?
    would a load with a 315 gr Lee be more accurate with a heavy load of W296 or a lighter load of say HS-6 or Unique?
    can't seem to get the accuracy I want at 50 yds with the unique loads from 8-5 to 11.0gr's.
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    44 Russian was known for accuracy in its day. I assume you are talking about a pistol. I don't know that speed is the issue it could be light loads in the big case are the issue. It might be position sensitivity. I find I shoot lighter loads more accurately as they are less sensitive to how you handle the recoil and grip position. Lighter loads are more sensitive to follow through as with the longer barrel time, if you relax too quickly you cause dispersion.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  3. #3
    Boolit Master 44magLeo's Avatar
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    I don't shoot boolits that heavy in my 44's. A 265 gr bullet passes clear through everything I shoot it at.
    I've had good accuracy from lows speeds of around 500 fps up to 1900 fps in my Marlin rifle.
    I select a hardness that matches the speed. Low speeds soft boolit, High speed harder boolit.
    My high speed allot runs about 14.5 BHN or so.
    My heavy loads I use 296 or 2400. Mid range loads get Unique. Light get Bullseye.
    Leo

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Mal Paso's Avatar
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    Barrel twist and length? There are 1/40 twist 44 barrels that don't like big bullets.

    296 needs enough barrel length. 6 inch is too short IMHO.

    My go to is the 260g #503 clone, 20g 2400 in 4 and 6 inch 1/20 twist revolvers. Elmer's load is no longer listed but I got an ES of 10 fps across 2 5 shot strings with it. Consistent burn isn't everything but the sweet spot is more important with slower powders.

    A compressed load of 22g 4759 under the 503 is awesome at 1300 fps and I'm hording my last 200.
    Mal

    Mal Paso means Bad Pass, just so you know.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Rainier's Avatar
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    In my limited experience the Lee 310-RF likes to be pushed kinda hard. I played around with W231 and didn’t have any luck. My shooting partner tried surpassed subsonic loads with that boolit and they went sideways through the target at 25 yards. I found a pretty full case of 4227 for a velocity of 1260 fps out of a 4.2 inch RedHawk was very accurate. I haven’t tried W296 simply because the 4227 load does everything I need.

    I had similar experience with the 45 Colt and the Lee 452-300 RF. I push it hard with W296 out of a 4.2 inch RedHawk and it does very well. Try to shoot it slow and accuracy goes south.

    Good luck and let us know what you sort out
    "Truth is treason in the empire of lies" Ron Paul

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I shoot Accurate 43-240A/AG pretty much exclusively. (Why mess with something that works???)

    In my Ruger Redhawk with 7" barrel, heavies are 296 or 2400 (around 1400 fps) and mid is Unique (around 1100 fps) and my cat sneeze are trail boss (around 800 fps).
    WWG1WGA

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy Ozark mike's Avatar
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    The Marlins and henrys with slower twists have to be pushed harder to get the rpms up. For faster twists pistols and long guns slower or faster doesn't matter
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  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master
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    seems like I always forget some of the details
    my concern is with a 5.5"Ruger Redhawk
    I am trying to get good consistent 50 yard accuracy
    that seems to be evading me
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    With my 10" 44 magnum Contender barrel and a 260 gr G/C MP boolit with 7.5 gr of Unique under it Im hitting my 10" gong at 100 yards
    and my 6" gong easily I would guess there going around 850 fps
    kids that hunt and fish dont mug old ladies

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I believe a little harder alloy helps with top speeds. My tightest group with 7.8 bh is 1600 fps out of my 77/44. My 80/20 plus 15% pewter with a BH of 15.4 shot great at 1750 fps and also with 23.8 grains of h110. I didn't run the 23.8 grain load across my crony but I'm guessing it was around 1850fps out of my rifle. The softer alloy shot sub moa at 100 yards and opened up at higher speeds. The 15.4 bh averaged 1.25" at 23.8 grains on h110 and sub moa with 21.1 grains of lil gun
    I GC and PC all the boolits and sized a thousand over. At lower speeds my groups opened up.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 07-05-2020 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Spelling

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Mal Paso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by white eagle View Post
    seems like I always forget some of the details
    my concern is with a 5.5"Ruger Redhawk
    I am trying to get good consistent 50 yard accuracy
    that seems to be evading me
    I have the 4 inch, they are 1/20 twist, 310 should not be a problem. I have not gone over 260g though, mostly Keith's.

    I never shot well with the factory grips, Patchmyer Decelerators have a longer pull and fit my hand better.

    Timing? All the primer hits dead center?
    Mal

    Mal Paso means Bad Pass, just so you know.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by white eagle View Post
    seems like I always forget some of the details
    my concern is with a 5.5"Ruger Redhawk
    I am trying to get good consistent 50 yard accuracy
    that seems to be evading me
    Yes, you still have left out many important details.

    Do you size to match the cylinder throat?

    Are your throats tighter than the barrel?

    Is the barrel choked at the frame?

    What alloy are you using?

    What lube are you using or do you powder coat?

    How are you supporting the gun when you are accuracy testing?

    Do you weigh or throw you powder charges?

    What kind of crimp/die do you use?

    Do the shots string horizontally or vertically?

    Do most of the shots cluster with just a single flyer?

    What do you consider good 50 yard accuracy?

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master
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    yes all hits are dead center
    I have got a taller front sight that hepped a bunch
    I was using a alloy of 3-1 lino lead with 8 and 10.5 gr of unique to start
    switched to 50/50 alloy and 16-1 with 19 gr of 296 one pc'd and one not
    haven't test them yet
    I mainly shoot Keith's in my gun as well but have been experimenting with heavier boolits
    I know iron sights are harder to get to shoot accurately but I am having a heck of a time
    getting any accuracy I would consider good hunting accuracy
    I can only hit my 10" steel 3 out of 6 times at 50 yds if I am lucky but that won't due for hunting
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I put a red dot on my 8 3/4" anaconda when I bought it back in the 90's. I can shoot first sized groups with all six rounds free hand at 75 yards along with j words when I use to shoot it all the time. I'll have to try cast in it.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    According to my books, 10.5 gr Unique is rather strong charge for the 310 gr bullet. I'm not seeing anything specifically for a 300-310gr with Unique, but by comparison 10 to 10.5 gr is likely to be a good maximum.

    To answer your question, the fastest load with the Lee 310gr shot the best in mine, which is also a 5.5" Redhawk. I had been loading 21.5 gr H110, but it seems 22 gr might be a little better yet. It can be hard to tell, as the recoil of this round is so fierce that it is tough to sit down and shoot 20+ good shots to compare. This load shoots average 3 1/2" 6 shot groups at 50 yards. Or better put, that how good I shoot it, and it was the best I've tried of that bullet.

    As strange as it sounds, I've been leaning to even heavier bullets because they don't seem to kick as bad. The above stated load runs close to 1300 fps. I've only just began, but it seems the 330 grain SSK shoots as good, but ran only 1100 fps with Bluedot. Some have even gone as heavy as 405 grain, and claim the recoil is even less.

    That's not to sway you from the Lee 310gr so much, as that bullet is a purpose built hunting bullet that is a balance between wounding and penetration. The SSK I mentioned is all about penetration. I hunt with a HP Keith bullet myself.

    So what kind of accuracy are you looking for?

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master
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    sorry I used the unique with 255 gr Keith's
    hunting accuracy for me is 4" with irons at least
    smaller would be better but if I can aim at a spot and come within
    a heart sized area around it I would be happy the size of a cd @ 50yds would be nice
    for a 6 shot group
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  17. #17
    Boolit Master


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    Definitely give the 296 a try. Lyman lists a max of 19.5 gr at 1.710" OAL, which I think is the bottom crimp groove. I've worked up to 22 grains with no problems at all crimped in the second groove. I also found that Federal standard primers provided better accuracy than CCI magnum's. Some have claimed ignition problems, but mine showed superior consistency of around 20 fps ES at around 10 degrees F with the standard primers.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Generally with .357 and .44 mag revolvers I found that they seemed to shoot hot loads best. But that was with j-word bullets.
    Life long gun nut and proud of it!

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainier View Post
    In my limited experience the Lee 310-RF likes to be pushed kinda hard. I played around with W231 and didn’t have any luck. My shooting partner tried surpassed subsonic loads with that boolit and they went sideways through the target at 25 yards. I found a pretty full case of 4227 for a velocity of 1260 fps out of a 4.2 inch RedHawk was very accurate. I haven’t tried W296 simply because the 4227 load does everything I need.

    I had similar experience with the 45 Colt and the Lee 452-300 RF. I push it hard with W296 out of a 4.2 inch RedHawk and it does very well. Try to shoot it slow and accuracy goes south.

    Good luck and let us know what you sort out
    Could you , PLEASE, get us a video of that 4227 load being fired. Especially from the side.

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master
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    ol 44 Man used to always say you need to push these
    not meant for lite loads guess I forgot that
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check