A quick education on 209 shotgun primers please

[bedbugbilly]

I have had a "project" on the back burner for a long time and I am going to get back to it soon. I am looking for a cheaper single barrel 20 gauge shotgun (like a Topper or similar) to load up some black powder shotgun shells for. I have a number of spent "hulls" that I will trim to length. load and seal with an over the shot card - will be using 2F Grafs or Goex.

My question is on the primers . . . . I have almost a full 1k box of CCI 209M Magnum primers that a fellow gave to me. I am guessing that a standard primer would work just fine as far as setting the 2F BP off but since I have the 209M already . . . . .

So can you tell me how great a difference there is in a standard 209 primer versus a 209 Magnum primer as far as the function in what I want to do? If like a rifle standard versus a magnum primer, I'm sure that the magnum primer has more "oomph" and more pressure on ignition . . . but having no experience to speak of with shotgun primers . . . will the 209 magnum primers I have on hand work O.K. in what I am doing as far as loading mild to moderate BP 20 gauge loads using 1 X fired plastic hulls? Or is there a reason "not" to use them?

Like anywhere else, supplies on the shelves are sparse. If I order on-line, I can find a 1K box of standard 209 priers but by the tie you add shipping and haz mat - it makes for some very expensive primers. But - safety cps first.

I will also mention that I know that the plastic hulls may only last for one loading - I will be using Circle Fly wads and cards that I also use for shot loads out of my flintlock Fusil-de-Chasse 20 gauge.

Thanks for the help and info - greatly apreciated.

[megasupermagnum]

With smokeless powder it matters. With blackpowder it does not. Blackpowder is dummy proof.

[gpidaho]

billy: I can't see any problem with your plan. You'll never reach an over pressure load with black powder. You might consider some brass hulls if you get your plastic hulls used up. Gp

[bikerbeans]

I have loaded BP in 12ga plastic hulls with Fed 209A primers and no problems. I did find that BP tends to melt the case mouth a bit so only one firing and I had to pitch the hulls.

The BP will put residue inside your receiver so you will need to disassemble it and clean.

BB

BB

[Nobade]

Measure the ID of your hulls to see how they compare to your wads.

[smokeeter]

I never noticed a problem with using standard primers ie. win209's for shotgun load especially in my lyman 525 loads, but I know for a fact with my smokeless muzzleloader using 209 ignition the difference between win209 and federal 209A loads was approx. 100 fps. measured with my Oehler chrony, the fed 209A's being greater.

[too many things]

as said the hulls will not last. but if you have supply dont matter primer is too close to call and mag may be better .

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks all for the information - greatly appreciated!

I figured that I would only get 1 X out fo the plastic hulls - I have about 200 of them so figured that I wold use them to get started and then if I got more involved in doing the BP shotgun shells - graduate to the MagTech brass. One thing I didn't realize until I did more reading on the MagTech brass hulls was that they used pistol primers - not really and issue but I had been thinking that they used the 209s.

Wads/Cards - I have 20 gauge Circle Fly but do realize that "fit" is everything. If they aren't tight enough in the plastic hulls, then I will make up a punch sand cut the cushion wads out of something like insulated sheathing or Celetex ceiling tile. Cardboard for cards is pretty easy to come by. My thoughts were to place a card over the powder and then use a cushion wad that I will soak in my melted BP lube and then pat dry with papa towel - then a card, shot and card. I'm guessing that fouling will be something to possibly be an issue as I don't know how well the cards, etc. will expell fouling so it doesn't build up quickly in the bore. I don't seem to have much issue with it ij my 20 gauge flint smoothbore but I also have always wet and dry patched after a few shots.

I like putzing around and I can make a reloading kit fairly easily - much like the old hand reloading shotgun kits. I have tried to find one of the old 20 gauge hand primers but so far, no luck. Plenty of 10 and 12 gauge ones floating around but the 20s seem to be more rare and bring a good price. I figure I can come up with a way to safely prime them by making something up similar to what is used in the old Lee hand loading kits.

The other day, while searching for something totally different, I ran across a video of an older gentleman who mentioned that he had played with a 20 gauge single barrel - he cut his modern hulls right above the brass base, primed the base and chambered it and the loaded all the components from the muzzle. It was interesting but not something I would be interested in trying - but t was a novel idea. When we were kids, my brother and I had a couple of old muzzleloading shotguns - percussion. Friends of my Dad's that knew we were shooting them kept us well supplied with old paper shotgun shells - estate finds, etc. - we would cut the ends off and salvage the shot to use and dump the powder and throw the rest away (the wads usually didn't[t fit the bores we had). We were "on the cheap" so we used newspaper for wads and smaller pieces of newspaper for over the shot. Surprisingly, it worked well and we had a lot of fun shooting clay pigeons that we would take turns throwing with a hand trap - we got pretty good at it and also took a few squirrels and rabbits with the same loads.

One question I have on the brass MagTech hulls - if they are shot in a single shot, I assume that they "fire form" to that chamber much like a bottle neck cartridge when fired in one gun only? When is it necessary to "resize" a brass shotgun hull? Or if they are shot in one gun only, can you get by without resining? I've seen resizing dies for them and also dies to put a roll crimp on the mouth but it seems like doing either would shorten the life of the hull. If a brass hull is shot in one chamber only - is it ever necessary to anneal the hull?

Thanks!

[gpidaho]

Billy: I fire my MagTec hulls (12ga.) without resizing. They may or may not work in another single or double barrel shotgun depending on the chamber. I've never tried them in a pump action but assume they would work at least once. I also have a 20 ga. 209 adapter offered by Short Line shotgun adapters that allows you to load your shotgun as a muzzle loader. This is pretty much the same as the video you watched using the brass head of the case only, works the same but lasts pretty much forever. Ballistic Products offers wads for brass hulls that are I believe one gauge larger than a standard wad. I use data from the Lyman Black Powder Manual and was surprised at the power of the charge. Recoil was on par with trap loads. One more thing to tinker with, enjoy. Gp

[bedbugbilly]

gpidaho - Thank you very much for the information. I have bookmarked Short Line and Ballistic Prodccts. I wasn't aware to the availability of the 209 adapter for the 12 gauge - some pretty neat stuff! It certainly puts a used 12 ga. single shot on the want list! The more I look the more I am convincing myself that the brass MagTech hulls are the way to go. Thanks again for the help - it"'s greatly appreciated.

Jim

[gpidaho]

You're welcome Jim. Some where on the Short Line site there is or used to be videos of the 209 adapters and also the blackout series. The blackout adapters are a sort of heavy replacement for a hull and reusable pretty much for ever. I have both and believe that the 209 adapter is the better option as the blackout adapter is limited to 60gr. black powder I believe (haven't shot it in a while) both options work well. Check them out. Gp

[gpidaho]

Jim: I forgot to mention that I use clean sheep wool as wadding (available on ebay) both over powder and shot with the 209 adapters. Gp

[6pt-sika]

I keep CCI209’s , CCI209M’s , WIN209’s and REM209’s on hand most all the time . My initial use for the 209M was for use in my Knight Disc Rifle ML’s . Now I’ll use the 209M’s in my 10 gauge 2 7/8” kinda heavy loads during deer season , but if I don’t have any on hand I don’t loose sleep over using any of the other three .