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Thread: Lyman 457193 Weight?

  1. #1

    Lyman 457193 Weight?

    I just picked up an older 80s vintage 457193. The owner claimed it was a 500 grain. I looked in an old cast bullet manual and see it listed as 420 grains but I also know that to be the 405 grain RNFP that is offered to this day.
    Did they change the nominal weight of this at some point? I have not cast with it yet so I’m not sure on the actual weight.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    On the very old Ideal molds [pre-WW1?] many bullets of the same nominal shape could be ordered in different weights made to order by shortening or lengthening the bullet by one or more driving bands and grooves when the cherry was set up. A 500-grain #193 would be a very old mold. A 420-grain version was shortened by one band, the 405-grain shortened by two, the 385-grain by three, if memory serves. You might seek out an ancient Ideal catalog which illustrates the bullet full length showing tic marks and listing the weight at each band length.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy mehavey's Avatar
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    Lyman 457193FNPB
    Cast in 1:30 -- 422gr
    Cast Lym#2 -- 412gr

  4. #4
    This mould isn’t that old.
    It has the normal amount of driving bands and doesn’t appear to be longer than normal.

    I guess my main question is basically why did Lyman list this in 2 different weights over the years? Did they have a change in cherry? Even the cast bullet manual list it as 420 grains with Lyman #2 alloy

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J. Spangler View Post
    This mould isn’t that old.
    It has the normal amount of driving bands and doesn’t appear to be longer than normal.

    I guess my main question is basically why did Lyman list this in 2 different weights over the years? Did they have a change in cherry? Even the cast bullet manual list it as 420 grains with Lyman #2 alloy
    Over the years as cherries wore out the fellows making relacements did it more by eyeball than measured tolerance, for sure.
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master


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    Mine weighs in at 418.9 w/lube. Alloy will vary weight but this one will never make 500 grains./beagle
    diplomacy is being able to say, "nice doggie" until you find a big rock.....

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I have a #457193 mould that I bought new about thirty-five years ago. I haven't used it in a good while, but my notes show 395 grains in linotype, 420 in wheelweight alloy, the mix I used the most.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master


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    A Lyman 457193 mould is supposed to be a nominal 405 gr PB FP for lever actions. That 405 gr +.- is when cast with #2 alloy. It will cast lighter with linotype and heavier with COWW or 20-1 or 16-1 alloys.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    A Lyman 457193 mould is supposed to be a nominal 405 gr PB FP for lever actions. That 405 gr +.- is when cast with #2 alloy. It will cast lighter with linotype and heavier with COWW or 20-1 or 16-1 alloys.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That makes sense but the Lyman manual listing 420 in #2 alloy is what has me confused. I’m probably over thinking what was really a typo right?

  10. #10
    Boolit Master



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    I was just casting mine yesterday. Mine is 420
    ish. (As stated its gonna vary a few oz because of alloy. )

    https://youtu.be/71xc8l5M6vA

    CW
    NRA Life member • REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    You're definitely over thinking it.
    "In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'

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  12. #12
    Boolit Master Toymaker's Avatar
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    As pointed out, alloy will make a big difference in weight. Casting temperature can cause small variations in weight. I "Beagle" my 457193, cast in pure lead and size it to 0.459" for a 421 grain bullet. But, as noted, it'll never make 500 grains.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J. Spangler View Post
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    That makes sense but the Lyman manual listing 420 in #2 alloy is what has me confused. I’m probably over thinking what was really a typo right?
    Moulds vary in actual weight from the manufacturer's book figure but are generally close if using the same alloy they used. Several changeable factors account for the discrepancy. It matters little.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J. Spangler View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That makes sense but the Lyman manual listing 420 in #2 alloy is what has me confused. I’m probably over thinking what was really a typo right?
    That's the data from Lyman's manual of many years back. That weight was also carried over into Lyman's CBH #3 with pretty much the same data. However, if you look at the current data listed in Lyman's CBH #4 you will see the weight listed a 405 gr with 20-1 alloy and updated (re-tested) data). So which is it? was it a "typo"? Any answer would be speculation. Read Outpost75's post (#2) will probably as close to a real answer as one can get. With older Ideal/Lyman moulds or the same bullet the actual weight of the bullets would vary, given the same alloy, because of the use of different cherries. Even with the same cherry as it is sharpened the succeeding moulds cut after each sharpening will drop slightly lessor weight bullets. The variances of manufacture, alloy used and even casting technique can all vary the as cast diameter and the weight of the bullets. That is why the word "nominal" us used for weight and as cast diameter of any mould.

    The fact is your 457193 will drop whatever weight bullets it will with what ever alloy you use because it is what it is.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
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  15. #15
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    I have a 2016 production from Midway , a shelf life clearance item , 457193 with 50/50+tin it drops a .4590 @ 415 gr . My tamper seal 1-20ish is about 420 . I have trouble keeping the tin in the lead because it soaks up copper from the hang wires so it wobbles around from 419-425 . Makes me cranky so I don't use it alone . I don't need a harder plain base for my shooting .

    The 45-500 RCBS , 45-450 and 45-405 bear a strong resemblance to the 457193 . I don't know what the 45-500 actually casts yet . The 500 gr moulds with a short nose for Marlins are hard to come by 2nd hand and scarce in production .
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