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Thread: The death penalty

  1. #21
    Boolit Mold
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    I was wondering how long it would be before someone pointed out the error in the first post,as ioon44 stated in his post it was Peter and not John that did the cutting and Peter was also male

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    don't know about all the theology but my girlfriend in college was chopped up by a drug crazed psycho with an axe two days after I left town for a job interview, he was caught and given life but his fellow prisoners took him out while at Rayford. karma I guess there may be something to it.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    ...…….You're a "compassionate believer" (of something?); what would you ask us to do? I mean would you suggest Christians arm themselves and rise up to storm the gates of prisons in the name of our God and stop all executions or are you just casually bloviating about nothing meaningful again?
    This is what I would have you do:

    Stop supporting the death penalty and follow the lead of other states that have stop performing executions until the problems in the system are corrected.

    https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news...um-executions/

    Change the rules of evidence for death penalty case from "beyond a reasonable doubt" to "beyond a shadow of a doubt." for a death sentence to be applied other wise life in prison with no parole.

    Christian ministers need to preach against executions just like the Pope does.

    The only countries that execute more people than the U.S. are China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, Iraq, and Egypt. Not the kind of company we should be keeping.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    …..Frankly, I believe the death penalty is underutilized. There are sociopaths and psychopaths that have not been convicted of murder but we should still kill them..
    You think we should execute people who have not been and probably can't be convicted due to a lack of evidence.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    You think we should execute people who have not been and probably can't be convicted due to a lack of evidence.

    Tim
    No.
    I think the penalty of death should be applied to crimes other than murder.

    And while we're at it, A theological question such as yours can only lead to circular arguments - which I suspect was your goal in the first post of this thread.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by djryan13 View Post
    The death penalty system is broken. Reports show it costs more (appeals, etc) than if you just put them in prison for life. Until that is resolved, my vote is for life in prison. I don’t want my tax dollars spent on appeals. Add to this that there have been too many falsely imprisoned folks, death penalty doesn’t make sense.

    If you can fix the above, I have no moral issue with the death penalty.
    The death penalty system is broken. Reports show it costs more (appeals, etc) than if you just put them in prison for life.

    I reject the premise that the death penalty "is broken". Furthermore, those,.....I guess ...? ... "reports"??? are from liberal anti-death penalty people that will write any lie in support of their argument.

    Add to this that there have been too many falsely imprisoned folks, death penalty doesn’t make sense.


    I reject that notion as well. It is extraordinarily difficult to convict someone. The standard for a criminal conviction is "beyond a reasonable doubt". That is the highest standard in our legal system, and not one easily reached. Many a guilty man has gone free not because they were innocent but simply because the state failed to overcome that incredibly high standard needed to convict. If you need an example - O.J. Simpson was found not guilty of double murder. There are few sane people that will argue Simpson is innocent. The state simply failed to meet their burden.

    As for the cost of incarcerating someone, the liberals will argue it costs well in excess of $20K a year to incarcerate someone UNLESS we're talking about the death penalty and then magically it costs almost nothing to incarcerate someone for 60 years.

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Tim, I have also seen pure evil. I do not know why God creates such people but He has. God created all of us to be imperfect...but that is another story. Evil is different.

    I wonder about God's purpose in permitting evil, or if Satan is at work...but in the end it does not matter. Evil is there and we must deal with it.

    To address your question, I do not know of any justification for execution in the NT. So, we are not given "permission" or authority to execute murderers etc by the Bible. Most Christians are christians….we follow the Word when it suits us. I would vote to execute a person I believe should not be allowed to live. I have no Biblical support for it, but I do not care.

    BTW, I am not aware of any passages in the NT that strictly forbid the execution of people who have been found guilty of murder, treason, etc.

    Did Jesus give us "wiggle room"?
    Don Verna


  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy
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    While I agree there is room for more study, here is one neutral source saying there is evidence it’s more expensive:
    https://ballotpedia.org/Fact_check/I...life_in_prison

    Even one case of someone wrongly convicted is too much IMO... Especially if that person was me or mine.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misc...#United_States

  9. #29
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Many Christians support the death penalty but not all.

    Some sins are certainly deserving of death but should Christians ever put a person to death. What do you think Jesus would say about Christians carrying out a death sentence?

    If on a jury a Christian votes guilty and the accused is executed but is actually innocent did that Christian commit murder.

    Is beyond a reasonable doubt an appropriate measure for a death penalty case? Shouldn't it be beyond the shadow of a doubt?

    Tim
    if you want to know what Jesus would say, read the bible.

    Jesus, the word of God made flesh.

    the bible explains several scenarios involving 'putting an accused to death'.

    as for 'show me in the new testament'.

    unless you are jewish, you don't split up God's word into 'this is for me, this is not for me'.

    the new testament did not abolish the law. Jesus said He came to fulfill the law, or 'complete' it.

    so old testament is just as important as the new testament.
    the new testament is FULL of AFFIRMING the commands/law of the old testament.

    now, if you want to take the dietary restriction given to THE HEBREW people as a reason to discard everything else God commanded, then i can't help ya there. those are obvious 'people specific' commands given to make sure the hebrew people did not melt right into the false god worshiping surrounding populace.

    i'll leave it at that since i'm not trying to fight, just put forth an answer based on God's word rather than my own.

    good luck
    Last edited by WebMonkey; 07-03-2020 at 12:51 PM.
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  10. #30
    Boolit Master flyingmonkey35's Avatar
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    I wrote a paper in this topic

    How to fix the death penalty.

    Once the suspect is tried a by a jury of his/her peers. And found guilty BEYOND a reasonable doubt.

    The case goes imeadtily is applied to be reviewed by a panel of randomly selected judges that are Not in the state.

    They independently review the case and make a ruling of any misconduct. They have 1 week to do this.

    If the judges rule the trial fair.

    No more the 1 week later the execution is performed.

    This is as fair as I can make it.

    We as humans are always susceptible to error. And I firmly believe god knows that and will judge us fairly.

    And jesus did get angry, and was known to pull out the whip. He went ballistic on the money changers in the temple.

    If he ever came across a child molester I'm pretty sure the guy would be having a meeting with jesus father that night.

    My 2 cents



    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  11. #31
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    Lets not push aside the other factors of the death penalty.

    The sociopath that is allowed to live will pose a constant threat to the guards, other inmates and society in general. He will pose a constant threat of escape.
    Then there is the very real possibility that he will attract a following (these people are incredibly manipulative and cunning) and persuade others that he has been wrongfully convicted. Those followers are often shallow celebrities and clueless liberals that desperately WANT to believe there was some injustice (they have no identity of their own - they need a liberal cause).

    The monetary cost of the death penalty is a small price to pay when compared the damage these people inflict by their very existence.

    And if you buy into the argument that it is expensive to seek the death penalty then it's only a small step to then say it is expensive to seek incarceration. I guess by that logic we should just abandon all accountability - it would be cheaper.

  12. #32
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    Allow me to point out that Mumia Abu-Jamal, the murderer that killed Officer Daniel Faulkner; is alive today largely because a bunch of clueless liberals, many of them celebrities, came to his side.

    When you kill a rabid wild dog you don't memorialize it. You just kill it and move on.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    In the Gospels Our Lord said He is our Shepherd.
    Sheep don't like sheepdogs very much.
    And there are wolves out there.
    Anybody dumb enough to re-introduce wolves
    should spend some time alone with them.
    Wolves visited us in North Pole AK some nights
    with small children at the bus stop in the dark.
    Never a problem, wolves run from light
    and armed housewives.
    My wife would say I am a Christian
    and as for the wolves shoot shovel shut up.
    We can't "hunt" near houses.
    Gov't thinks they're cute. Game animals.
    Death penalty? Yes, if. Prove it.
    YMMV

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    My Dad was against the death penalty.
    Here is what he taught me as a teen:

    Two friends pick you up. You get in the back seat.
    Stop at gas station passenger gets out goes in shoots clerk
    Away you go, cops pull you over.
    Shooter pleads to whatever, out in seven years.
    Driver pleads to whatever, out in seven years.
    But you in the back seat?
    You can't plead, you didn't do anything!
    You are accessory before murder, death penalty.
    And it happens. Really.
    Think before you get in, or just walk home.

    His Dad told him same thing.
    I avoided some drunk crashes from that advice.
    Advice may have saved my life.
    So I told my kids...

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by .429&H110 View Post
    My Dad was against the death penalty.
    Here is what he taught me as a teen:

    Two friends pick you up. You get in the back seat.
    Stop at gas station passenger gets out goes in shoots clerk
    Away you go, cops pull you over.
    Shooter pleads to whatever, out in seven years.
    Driver pleads to whatever, out in seven years.
    But you in the back seat?
    You can't plead, you didn't do anything!
    You are accessory before murder, death penalty.
    And it happens. Really.
    Think before you get in, or just walk home.

    His Dad told him same thing.
    I avoided some drunk crashes from that advice.
    Advice may have saved my life.
    So I told my kids...
    That is lacking in logic and so far from reality that it's hard to even begin.

    Two friends pick you up. You get in the back seat.
    Stop at gas station passenger gets out goes in shoots clerk


    One - you need to get better "friends".
    Two - Did you KNOW the passenger was going to shoot the clerk? If you didn't, you're not an accessory before the fact and even if you did and couldn't escape the situation before it occurred, you're still not an accessory before the fact.

    Away you go, cops pull you over.
    Shooter pleads to whatever, out in seven years.

    The "Shooter" doesn't GET to plead to "whatever". I have No idea where that concept comes from. The shooter will be charged with murder and maybe robbery. If the prosecution offers a plea, it's unlikely to be a plea to double parking. The concept that some prosecutor would offer a seven year plea to murder is outside of reality.

    If the guy in the back seat has half a brain, he will cooperate with the police and prosecutor immediately, starting at the arrest and continuing all the way through the trial of his, I guess.....??? "friends???

    Anyone that believes that fact pattern would result in that outcome is operating outside of reality.

  16. #36
    Boolit Grand Master
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    In this day and mind set, most people just don't know right from wrong.
    Those sitting on a jury could have the same problem.
    If the murder were black, caught in the act, was not on drugs or mentally impaired, they would get away with it.
    If they were white, it would be a different story.
    Kind of sad.
    Majority of the time, when they have an execution, people don't hear the details about what happened, and how he was involved.
    Thank the media for that.
    So people feel sorry for them, and think it's cruel to take their life.
    They forget about what the victim and family went through.
    Again the media is responsible for that.
    The system is not perfect, because people are involved.
    I do believe in the death penalty.

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    My country does not have the death penalty.

    A man came home to find his whole family shot to death. The police decided he did it since he was the one still alive. He was tired by jury, found guilty and imprisoned for life. Thirteen years later a pressure group managed to get him a re-trial. He was found not guilty and released (the father did it before turning the gun on himself).

    When asked whether he would be given compensation for improper imprisonment, the minister of justice said no, because the jury could be wrong. So why was he imprisoned in the first place if the jury could be wrong?

    Another case in another country. A man is convicted of murder (multiple) and the judge could not bring himself to sentence him to death. He served his 'life sentence' and was duly released. A family took him in and he subsequently murdered the son then raped and murdered the daughter.

    The thing is, there has never in the history of mankind been a repeat offence committed by an executed criminal. However, there have been many executed innocents.

    Then again, there are those very obviously 'evil' criminals for which there is no shadow of doubt. Personally, I don't care whether the person 'isn't responsible for his/her actions' due to insanity or something.

    My opinion on the death penalty is that as long as a jury system is in place, one should not have the death penalty. That said, I do support the death penalty but only for special cases where there can be zero margin of error, zero shadow of doubt and not only for murder.

    On an aside, I think one cannot have the death penalty for rape because that would encourage rapists to murder their victims. I must say though that how I feel about rapists is that they should be executed.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  18. #38
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by abunaitoo View Post
    In this day and mind set, most people just don't know right from wrong.
    Sure they do.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    This whole topic is illogical and therefore so silly I can't help but believe it's anything but trolling. Nevertheless ....

    Jesus said to "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's" about taxes. He also said to obey those who have been granted legal power over us. I believe those directives to obey the laws of the land extends to criminal law as well and we do KNOW Caesar's government executed killers, don't we? So, I wonder why some self-styled "innerlecsul" folk who should know better feel free to ignore all that and twist scripture out of shape in order to reach warped touchy-feely PC positions they obviously have no right to claim?

    If America's limp-wristed, candy-arzzs lib screamers worried half as much about victims who have been brutalized and killed by killer goblins as they do about being sweet to brutal killers there would likely be enough political support for a proper punishment of offenders to make the legal system meaningful.

    God - and any man with a functioning brain - knows the lib's "Flower Power For All" and "Make Punishment Brief and Comfortable for Brutal Creeps" social plans haven't done any good for goblin's past or future victims, nor will continuing to expand the lib's costly application of free-love and tolerance for creeps ever make anything better for anyone but the creeps - THAT'S why we have so many repeat offenders!

    Execution is a hard thing. It isn't done quickly, casually or without very strong supporting evidence - evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. But, as in OJ Simpson's case, even with plain evidence of a heinous knife murder, a lot of murderous/rapist creeps are still set free. And a lot of the creeps are black, as are most of their victims.

    I hate it when anyone is deliberately killed .... especially those who were victims. So, it's to the victims, past and future, I extend my Christian compassion and not so much for goblins who are unhappy about getting caught, rightly convicted and put out of our misery by the law. The correct penalty for a capital crime is loss of life, period. And, rivers of lib tears for poor ol' goblins aside, I have NO misapprehensions about standing before the Lord's judgement seat to discuss that!

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    This whole topic is illogical and therefore so silly I can't help but believe it's anything but trolling. .............!
    /\ You are absolutely right /\

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