I took up trapping & snares at the end of last hunting season, Been using the 429215 & 10gr 800-x powder in rifles to dispatch Yotes & like I said in original post a Hot Load of W-296 that sings & I just knew it had to be much more than a paper puncher just never tried it on deer been using a 358 Win. with great satisfaction & never felt the need, but now I can't wait for season to try something different.