loading HBWC's (hollow base wadcutters)

[oldsalt444]

Too bad we can't get Remington or Winchester HBWCs anymore. They are excellent bullets. 452AA has also gone the way of the do-do bird. It was replaced by WST.

[USSR]

Too bad we can't get Remington or Winchester HBWCs anymore. They are excellent bullets.

Yep, I got one of the last cases of 2,000 Remingtons before they quit selling them.

Don

[Billwnr]

452AA was a dirty powder. The replacements burn lots cleaner. Hodgdon's powders are even cleaner. I'll be shooting Clays and HBWC's this morning.

[Billwnr]

Shot this morning and chronographed the loads. I expected the Remington HBWC's to shoot tighter groups as they came highly recommended. The Hornady HBWC's shot smaller groups. Both groups had a tight range of high and low velocities. I think the sd was 10 for both HBWC's.

[tazman]

Shot this morning and chronographed the loads. I expected the Remington HBWC's to shoot tighter groups as they came highly recommended. The Hornady HBWC's shot smaller groups. Both groups had a tight range of high and low velocities. I think the sd was 10 for both HBWC's.

And the group sizes were? With what gun?

[Martin Luber]

For Model 52s, try running the hbwc through a 358 sizer then see what you get for performance.

[Billwnr]

For Model 52s, try running the hbwc through a 358 sizer then see what you get for performance.

My gun is a Dan Wesson revolver, not a Model 52. And I am using a .358 sizer based off the diameters of my cylinder throats.

[USSR]

My gun is a Dan Wesson revolver, not a Model 52. And I am using a .358 sizer based off the diameters of my cylinder throats.

Why are you sizing your commercial HBWC's? One of the reasons the Remingtons are noted for their accuracy is their large size. Leave them as bought.

Don

[Billwnr]

Why are you sizing your commercial HBWC's? One of the reasons the Remingtons are noted for their accuracy is their large size. Leave them as bought.

Don

I'm not sizing the HBWCs. The 358429 bullets are the ones being sized. I can see from one of the above posts where you assumed I was sizing the commercial wadcutters. I gave the gun a good exterior scrubbing after returning. I'll also clean the exterior again before I go out again. I had "spitting" and that was probably from dirt causing it to be out of time.

[Martin Luber]

For Model 52s, try running the hbwc through a 358 sizer then see what you get for performance.

Sorry, didn't finish my thought: run them nose first into the sizer, this allows the punch to square up the base of the skirt, true up the body, and give uniform size.

This is for a 52 with a .355 groove, not revolver sorry.

[Billwnr]

Sorry, didn't finish my thought: run them nose first into the sizer, this allows the punch to square up the base of the skirt, true up the body, and give uniform size.

This is for a 52 with a .355 groove, not revolver sorry.

Interesting thought about trueing up the bases. I like that. Thanks.

[Outpost75]

In experiments I did in 1984, loading Saeco #348 double-end wadcutters in full-charge loads with 3.5 grains of Bullseye, firing them at 50 yards in a heavy 16-inch twist test barrel on BSA-Cadet action with .38 AMU chamber, 10X Unertl scope, orienting the bullets with the sprue-cutoff forward, so that the base was perfectly formed with no defects, reduced average group size by 1/2". Comparing series of ten consecutive ten-shot groups, alternating targets fired with sprue forward, sprue back on adjacent targets and firing all 200 rounds in the space of 2 hours, average extreme spread of all twenty ten-shot groups was about 2 inches at 50 yards. The best groups were just over an inch, and none of the series was over 3 inches.

Bullets were cast of indoor range backstop scrap from the FBI Academy range, and test firing was from machine rest in a 50-yard tube. Bullets were loaded as-cast and unsized at .360", lubricated with industrial-grade Johnson Glo-Coat floor wax, in once-fired, unsized Winchester .38 Special cases with WSP primers, assembled on a Phelps machine with profile FL cartridge sizer and taper-crimp die similar to the Redding Profile crimp on the last stage. Velocity from the 20-inch test barrel was 1080 fps.

[Billwnr]

Checked my box of HBWC's. The one in front of my face is Hornady but I wasn't using those. I shot the Speer HBWC's instead. Did mike them and the Speer comes out .356/357 and the Remington came out .358/.360. The noses were the smaller diameter and the bases were the larger. I have not broken out the targets to measure the groups yet but will do so this weekend.

[Martin Luber]

Outpost, that is awesome. Was there a reason not to resize? ie was the groove oversize? Glo-coat...anything similar to it available now?
Thanks

[Outpost75]

Outpost, that is awesome. Was there a reason not to resize? ie was the groove oversize? Glo-coat...anything similar to it available now?
Thanks

Johnson 700 wax-draw is similar to Glo-Coat and can be mixed up to 4 parts of water if you want to buy it in 55 gallon drums for flood coating in industrial use as Winchester, Lake City and Starline do.

I don't size bullets, but load .360-.361" as-cast in order that bullets will fit snugly and not drop down against powder in UNSIZED, decapped cases. Only sizing is done AFTER seating while taper-crimping with Redding Profile Crimper! Depending upon brass thickness bullet will be sized gently by compression inside the case. The Redding die does a better job of this than the Lee Factory Crimp die which reduces rounds too small. Shooting heavy test barrel on slave action in return to battery rest, or on sandbags with 10X Unertl scope in 50-yard tube best loads should average under 2 inches for 100 consecutive rounds fired in ten-shot groups. A good S&W 52, Hammerli 240 or a really good PPC revolver properly fitted up will do likewise.

[Martin Luber]

The 52 didn't like the H&G#50 which casts out around .360 but the Lyman DEWC ( forget the No.) casts smaller and the 52 likes that.
Thanks

[Outpost75]

The 52 didn't like the H&G#50 which casts out around .360 but the Lyman DEWC ( forget the No.) casts smaller and the 52 likes that.
Thanks

Using the Redding Profile Crimp the .360" out of round bullet is reduced in diameter, trued round and compressed inside the case as the cartridges are profiled to 0.001" less than SAAMI Max. Cartridge, so the H&G50 would be no issue.

[oldsalt444]

The 52 didn't like the H&G#50 which casts out around .360 but the Lyman DEWC ( forget the No.) casts smaller and the 52 likes that.
Thanks

That makes sense since 52 barrels are .355. I size to .357 and it works well in my 52. My revolvers like .359.

[Billwnr]

I'm not sizing the HBWCs. The 358429 bullets are the ones being sized. I can see from one of the above posts where you assumed I was sizing the commercial wadcutters. I gave the gun a good exterior scrubbing after returning. I'll also clean the exterior again before I go out again. I had "spitting" and that was probably from dirt causing it to be out of time.

Had a chance this morning to blow the gun out with my air compressor. I cleaned it good after returning from the range. Stuck some ammo in and the cylinder still dragged. Decided to see what would happen if I seated the bullets deeper. I was longer than what Lyman used in their cast bullet book but the ammo fit in my cylinder. After blowing the gun out I looked at the cylinder closely and saw some grease/cleaning fluid/gunk on the inside rim of the cylinder. Took a q-tip to that and the ammo still dragged. Seated the bullets down to 1.530 which was the length in the Lyman book and the cylinder dragging finally wasn't there. So a combo of gooood cleaning and deeper bullet seating took care of the problem. I'll have to re-do my testing as I think the cylinder dragging and possible dirt negated the previous results. Looks like sometime next week will be the re-do.