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Thread: .600 fe

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    .600 fe

    Hello guys. Time to start a new project. Still working with 12 Gauge from Hell extensively, but I felt I needed to do this while I can. .600 FE (.600 Ferran) is a wildcat concept I have created. Based off of 20 gauge shot shell brass, this cartridge is very much like a rifle cartridge, however like the 12gaFH it's still classified as a shotgun. Now, 20 gauge from hell is a real thing, but my cartridge is completely different. Where 20/12 gauge from hell is designed to go as fast as possible, my case is much much shorter at 2" and is designed for subsonic velocities so a suppressor can be used. With a 1000 grain hollow point, moving just below the supersonic zone, it can produce around 3000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, despite it's slow speed.

    The advantages of my cartridge, and the platform I'm using are actually pretty cool. This requires no special chamber cut, no special magazine, or any other kind of trickery. Meaning, this gun will shoot both my cartridge, and normal 20 gauge slugs. This makes this an extremely versatile platform.

    This cartridge has North American game in mind, and is even more specifically aimed at shotgun only areas. Though, this should be good from deer, elk, moose, and bear, pretty much anything we got here and maybe a few African species. The suppressor, while not necessary adds to this cartridge, but like I said it's totally optional.

    Right now, to get a savage set up for this and to gather the materials (bullets, brass ect.) a person is looking at around $2100 in total for a very rough estimate. It could be made much cheaper still if you used a 20 gauge Ultra Slug Hunter from H&R, as it requires virtually no modifications except for a new pad and a threaded barrel if you choose to suppress. The savage is going to need a new stock, aftermarket bull barrel, muzzle threaded, and that's it.

    Anyways, I'm very early into the development and I've got a lot to go until it's ready for a test firing. I've got the brass and barrel on order now. So, if this is something that interests you, you can follow along here as this is where I'll post updates.

    Here is a quick video that kinda explains some stuff and shows it will fit in the savage. The slug will probably look a bit different, but the loaded length will be identical. Also printed a mich nicer looking model and painted it. This will give a better idea as to how beastly this will look. Let me know what y'all think!


    https://youtu.be/woihiWVQSX0
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    This chart is extremely rough estimates for drop and energy at different yardage. I can't stress enough how rough this is. I got as close as I could without having the bullets BC and length.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Boolit Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    In the cartridges of the world 14th edition there is an article by Bill Loeb entitled a shotgun wildcat. He is working with a 3.5" Hastings 20gauge in a single shot rifle platform. Takes some buffalo with it. Might be worth a look.

    Post script, that's neat, thanks for sharing.
    Last edited by Bazoo; 06-28-2020 at 08:48 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    Different concept entirely. What you're describing is sounding a lot like 20 gauge from hell. It uses long 20 gauge brass and pushes the slug to extremely high velocities. My cartridge is the opposite of that and is designed to mag feed.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    The closest cartridge to this would be the 620 jdj. It is a destructive device. The cartridge creator, JD Jones, (currently world record holder for largest centerfire rifle in the world) commented on a post on my cartridge concept and believes it will be easily attainable, which is a big confidence boost

  5. #5
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    Just talked to the gentleman who will be manufacturing the bullets. Trying to come up with a way to get reliable expansion at subsonic velocities as low as 800 fps. Right now the idea is to make the hollow point massive, score the inside in several places, and make a ballistic tip to act as a piston to aid in expansion and to increase the BC

  6. #6
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    What bullet diameter are you going to use? .600"? or is the .600 FE just the name?
    It might be worth looking into the .620" Then you'd have all of the ready made 60 cal stuff, like the 600NE...
    What diameter are 20ga slugs? I looked around some and came up with .623". https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Th...info/SSPPTS20/
    I have some Magtech 20ga brass and new they have an ID of .657"ish. Are you going to use the ready made Magtech brass, or get some more of the lathe turned cases from RMC, just in 20 ga.

    I've got a .700" cal double barrel pistol that I shoot 1oz 12ga slugs in. They are made to go inside the wad, so are magically about .700" the hollow base takes care of the wiggle room. I was looking at getting some custom made RMC cases, but found that 1.6" 16ga hulls work perfect.

  7. #7
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    Yep, going with RMC brass again. The magtech ID is too large as they use thin stamped brass. The problem with going to a .620 vs the true bore diameter of 20 gauge of .615 is then the cartridge would no longer be considered a shotgun and therefore a destructive device by the ATF. This skirts around that BS by still technically being a 20 gauge slug. There are a few problems with going with a slug that's already manufactured. 1- getting a 1000 grain 20 gauge slug will be almost impossible 2- the shape won't be tailored for aerodynamic stability at subsonic velocities. The design we are shooting for will be pretty dang aerodynamic and should help reduce the drop (by having less friction from air). I have thought about going with lead, but the way I designed the case is counting on the excessively long projectile the copper provides. The powder I will be testing first (not ready to reveal that yet) is only going to have a charge weight ove around 38 grains. If I went with lead, there would be a huge empty space in the cartridge and would cause a pressure spike in the case. To get around that, I could use fill, but I'm intending this for suppression use so trying to avoid that as well.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Just a suggestion. Are the current bullets for your project flat based?. Going to a boat tail base may improve both the stability and extend the distance at which the game is shot. And are the bullets cast or jacketed. You can get bullet molds that cast boat tailed bullets. And are you using a shot cup for your bullets?. Frank

  9. #9
    Boolit Master reed1911's Avatar
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    What a wonderfully neat idea!

    Who are you working with on the bullet? Hawk Bullets would be a good source, you may give them a call.
    Ron Reed
    Oklahoma City, OK

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    The bullets will be designed as a boat tail. No shot cup, full bore slugs using slower powder than shotgun powder to keep pressure low. Bullets are going to be copper made on a cnc

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by reed1911 View Post
    What a wonderfully neat idea!

    Who are you working with on the bullet? Hawk Bullets would be a good source, you may give them a call.
    Thank you. The person making the bullets is Badlands Precision. They did great work on my .729" 12 gauge solids so they get this project.

  12. #12
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    Sounds like a great idea. I'm looking forward to more youtube vids.
    Any idea of the BC of the new .615 bullets?

  13. #13
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    At 1000 gr moving subsonic it will have the trajectory of a brick. Something like 2' at 100 yd.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by lar45 View Post
    Sounds like a great idea. I'm looking forward to more youtube vids.
    Any idea of the BC of the new .615 bullets?
    No idea yet. We are gonna try to get it as high as possible though. I'm trying to get this to shoot as flat as possible with the extremely heavy projectile. Tall order, but I'd like to get this out to 300 yards. Like I said, I designed this around areas like mine where long distance shots are few and far between, so if I can't make that goal I'll be happy with 150- 200 yards

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogtamer View Post
    At 1000 gr moving subsonic it will have the trajectory of a brick. Something like 2' at 100 yd.
    Just depends on how aerodynamic we can get the projectile. If it cuts through the air good enough, we should get extra distance out of it as there will be less drag to slow it down. Once I get the sub loads dialed in, I plan on doing a load with a lighter bullet going much faster. Won't get speeds or power like you could with 20 gauge from hell, but it will still be substantial and can reach further out.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    For "speed" the 3 1/2" 20 ga. will easily exceed 2,500 fps. with specialty sabot rounds, which does make the 20 ga. a viable 300 yard gun for deer!

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    1000 gns at subsonic is going to leave you about 1000 ft lbs short of 3000.
    The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check