Handgun for a lower 48 black bear encounter

[Chill Wills]

The 1.25 per year is fatal attacks not total attacks.

This is a key point.

They are a great many human - bear interactions in Colorado annually. When they happen in the mountain towns, they get press. Often it is the bear that gets removed. Bear interaction is on the rise as the state's population has quadrupled in my lifetime. I have no idea how many bears stick there nose under the tent or trail encounters go unreported each year. And, to whom would you report? They are unreported. Likely most bear caused injury makes it to some list but I can tell you in my years firefighting/ambulance/rescue, there was nothing that required notice in the reports to document these less than fatal events. I think lack of data plays a part in saying these event rarely happen.

For me, frequency of events does not play into being prepared. Flat tires are rare. No mater how often or not, I carry a spare tire. I wear seat belts even though I have never been in a bad accident. I keep a scoop shovel, lumber saw and axe in the truck - just cause. They get used little but glad to have them when needed.

I open carry a side arm on trails and in the back country for a multitude of reasons. Two legged threats are far more common than bears. Man's best friend off leash has been the cause of many a harmful events on the trail, and emergency services (me) would be called to respond.

I carry for all these reasons. I have never shot a high country bear. Never had reason to. I think any day I get to see one is a good day. I have watched unnoticed as one moves around looking for food. Turning over logs and rocks or eating the chokecherries, leaves, branches and all, up behind the house.

I guess I am surprised at the (few) posts about bears being a none threat and the message almost sounds like having a handgun with you for bears is all about ones ego and not needed. It almost goes with out saying that this group, a group of shooters and gun owners can so easily bring to the woods a handgun they already own. I do. So no problem there.

Thanks for all the good info. I am happy to have had access to the links posted here and gained the info on this subject.

I will be with handgun as always. Living in the USA is still free (for the time anyway) and I will use my rights. Leaning hard on my 44 Special rights.

[444ttd]

back about 20 or so years ago(when PA game commission had a 3 day doe season), i was hunting doe on a tuesday(2nd day of doe). i had my freezer full of deer meat, i killed a buck and doe this year, but i had one more tag and besides, do you know how beautiful the woods are when the sun is coming up? breathtaking!!!!! well i didn't shoot a doe that day, but i could have. it was around 12:30 - 1 pm when i decided i've had enough of deer this year. then all of sudden my neck hairs stand up and i feel that i am being watched. i slowly scan the brush and when i get to back of me....a black bear is sitting there about 40 yards from me. oh, thats the reason why i feel that i am being watched. now, its not the first time i have seen a bear. i have seen a bear/bears every other year since i was 12, so its no big deal to me.

i figure that when i stand up that will be enuff of bear and that he leave quickly. well, i stand up and instantly the bear goes on all fours. so i said or words to that effect, "all right, get!!!" and the bear cocks his head. so i take a couple of steps toward him and he(i'll call him he and the weight of bear is around 300-400lbs) backs away a couple of steps. hmm i guess that he doesn't know that i am human, so i take a couple of more steps and yell out " GET!!! GO AWAY!!!". so he takes couple steps backwards. i continued to do that for about 5 minutes and he continued backwards. UGH!!!!!! well i had enuff of him, so i went on the trail that will lead me to my car(2 miles or so). it was fun to talk with him. i'd look over my shoulder and there he'd be about 40 yards away. we'd talk about the weather, the Steelers or anything that comes my mind. it was about mile or so to my car when he came closer, 30 yards or so. i stopped, turned around, took the rifle off my shoulder and said "thats far enough," and he goes back to about 40 yards. "good bear" i tell him. he cocks his head. we go about 1/8 of mile and he's back to 30 yards from me. "thats far enuff, i don't want to shoot you, but i will." then his ears go back and he makes loud and pulsing throated sounds while walking towards me. so i shouldered my rem m760 in 308 and said "BEAR I WILL SHOOT YOU!!!". 25 yards he still coming, so i flick the safety off and said " BEAR DON"T YOU DO IT!!!!!" he still is walking, ears laid back and making pulsated throating sounds till he gets within 20 yards from me, then i shoot, not to kill him, but the ground in between his front paws. the ground looked like like a giant mushroom cloud and the bear went onto his back and he bolted. i was scared of putting four rounds into him. i settled down myself (it took me about 10 minutes or so) and continued down the trail.

two weeks go by and my neighbor's son in law is a biologist. i tell him about my encounter with the bear and he goes to me "your lucky to survive. the bear looked at you as if you were food. your lucky to have that gun. if it were me, there would be one less bear to worry about." the pulsated throating sounds, which i learned, are a bear's offensive sounds. a clicking or a popping sound is defensive.

when i go into the woods, i have a ruger sbh in 44 mag strapped to my side. its loaded up with 44 spl/ 255gr Kieth and 7.5gr of unique. i take it just like you would do a pocket knife. i'm more afraid of the BLM "is coming to the woods" than i am a bear. i've seen a mama bear with three cubs at a distance of 50 or 60 yards. i've seen them solo many times.

last monday or tuesday at noonish, i have seen a black bear in my yard. he stayed about 10 minutes or so and then he went into woods. he was male(stood up on his hind legs) and a flat type head and i guessitmate he will go 6' to 6.5' and he will weigh about 400-500lbs. the bear only came one appearance, i guess he was bored.

[jonp]

Unless your dealing with special circumstances a 357 Mag with cast will deal with any black bear you come in contact with but as always, bigger is better. No such thing as over gunned

[megasupermagnum]

For me, frequency of events does not play into being prepared. Flat tires are rare. No mater how often or not, I carry a spare tire. I wear seat belts even though I have never been in a bad accident. I keep a scoop shovel, lumber saw and axe in the truck - just cause. They get used little but glad to have them when needed.

I open carry a side arm on trails and in the back country for a multitude of reasons. Two legged threats are far more common than bears. Man's best friend off leash has been the cause of many a harmful events on the trail, and emergency services (me) would be called to respond.

Bingo. Just about anything is a more realistic threat than a black bear. If you have a 100 to 1 chance of encountering a rabid dog, rather than an ornery black bear, which I think are realistic odds. Are you going to carry the semi auto 9mm with 15 shots that fits in your pocket, or the big old 44 magnum with 6 shots?

Going near the Yellowstone area is one thing. For the rest of the 48 states, I'm taking the 9mm every single time.

Some take the middle ground with something like a 45 acp or 10mm. Either way, you will be just fine.

[Chill Wills]

Bingo. Just about anything is a more realistic threat than a black bear. If you have a 100 to 1 chance of encountering a rabid dog, rather than an ornery black bear, which I think are realistic odds. Are you going to carry the semi auto 9mm with 15 shots that fits in your pocket, or the big old 44 magnum with 6 shots?

Going near the Yellowstone area is one thing. For the rest of the 48 states, I'm taking the 9mm every single time.

Some take the middle ground with something like a 45 acp or 10mm. Either way, you will be just fine.

Nah. I'm a revolver guy. I can take the 1911 but would rather have a revolver any day. I have never owned a 9mm. Never likely to either.
I like sub-sonic loads that don't split the eardrums.
I guess that makes me gravitate toward big slow bullets. Slow by 9mm standards. Not by my standards.
The 5 shot S&W 696 is my go to sidearm. I carry it most of the time and shoot it regularly. I am pretty happy with that.

[Three44s]

About the time I was getting my teeth cut shooting and loading my 44 mags in earnest, I also procured and read two of Keith’s books, “Six Gun’s” and “Hell I Was There”.

Here was a man that lived it 360 degrees 24/7, survived it and then wrote about it.

A story that he tells of a British Columbia Black Bear that charged the pack string he was helping tend is revealing. The bear charged down through the string for no apparent reason, engaged a fellow tender’s dog. The dog’s owner emptied his 9 mm Luger into the bear. The dog remained gripped in the bears jaws as the two animals rolled off the steep side hill and into a river. They last were seen sinking and being carried down stream.

The dogs owner doubled back that evening to try and recover his dog but no avail.

Another story, one from a different gentleman who was guiding a bear hunt with hounds. His client was a NYC Cop who was very smitten with his 1911 in 45 auto. They had a prize bear treed and the cop wanted to drop it with his baby. Well he dropped it alright! At the shot, perfectly placed by the way .... the bear slapped his chest with one paw where steam was rushing out from the bullets boiler room hit and dropped out of the tree and proceeded to tear up the pack of hounds. That guide as I recall reinstated his former weapon requirement for future clients.

It is a free country to pack whatever we want and discuss our theories and then in the end pack what we want. I will stick with my “old” 44 Mag.

My favorite packer is a Smith Mountain Gun in 44 Mag. It tips the scales at 39 oz. I can load it to taste. If I owned a S&W 329, I would carry that at 27 oz but I don’t.

BTW, I would definitely take an uploaded 44spl over about any of the autos.

Three44s

[megasupermagnum]

About the time I was getting my teeth cut shooting and loading my 44 mags in earnest, I also procured and read two of Keith’s books, “Six Gun’s” and “Hell I Was There”.

Here was a man that lived it 360 degrees 24/7, survived it and then wrote about it.

A story that he tells of a British Columbia Black Bear that charged the pack string he was helping tend is revealing. The bear charged down through the string for no apparent reason, engaged a fellow tender’s dog. The dog’s owner emptied his 9 mm Luger into the bear. The dog remained gripped in the bears jaws as the two animals rolled off the steep side hill and into a river. They last were seen sinking and being carried down stream.

The dogs owner doubled back that evening to try and recover his dog but no avail.

Another story, one from a different gentleman who was guiding a bear hunt with hounds. His client was a NYC Cop who was very smitten with his 1911 in 45 auto. They had a prize bear treed and the cop wanted to drop it with his baby. Well he dropped it alright! At the shot, perfectly placed by the way .... the bear slapped his chest with one paw where steam was rushing out from the bullets boiler room hit and dropped out of the tree and proceeded to tear up the pack of hounds. That guide as I recall reinstated his former weapon requirement for future clients.

It is a free country to pack whatever we want and discuss our theories and then in the end pack what we want. I will stick with my “old” 44 Mag.

My favorite packer is a Smith Mountain Gun in 44 Mag. It tips the scales at 39 oz. I can load it to taste. If I owned a S&W 329, I would carry that at 27 oz but I don’t.

BTW, I would definitely take an uploaded 44spl over about any of the autos.

Three44s

Really? 10mm auto, 10mm magnum, 45 super, 460 rowland, 50 AE, etc.? You would take a 44 special over those?

[Rainier]

megasupermagnum - I’ll ask the obvious question

Really? 10mm auto, 10mm magnum, 45 super, 460 rowland, 50 AE, etc.? You would take a 44 special over those?

Makes a man wonder why you care? You’ve already told us…

I'm taking the 9mm every single time.

That’s your answer to the OP’s original question of…

Were it you, what would you feel is enough gun on your hip

Everybody gets to choose what they want to carry but according to you a 9mm is all anyone needs because black bears aren’t a concern Sooo... why hassle other people about their choice?

[white eagle]

Really? 10mm auto, 10mm magnum, 45 super, 460 rowland, 50 AE, etc.? You would take a 44 special over those?

I would choose the 44 special as well
what is a 10 mm mag another name for a 41 mag?

[Three44s]

Really? 10mm auto, 10mm magnum, 45 super, 460 rowland, 50 AE, etc.? You would take a 44 special over those?

Yes really!

Not factory 44 spl loads mind you but judicious handloads.

Further, we should not forget that an autoloader’s first rule is that it must not be a single shot. The bullet profile must feed reliably and that is not necessarily the best shape for effective external ballistics.

A revolver does not share those handicaps. Instead one can utilize a wide nose large metplat slug.

Three44s

[MOA]

Yes really!

Not factory 44 spl loads mind you but judicious handloads.

Further, we should not forget that an autoloader’s first rule is that it must not be a single shot. The bullet profile must feed reliably and that is not necessarily the best shape for effective external ballistics.

A revolver does not share those handicaps. Instead one can utilize a wide nose large metplat slug.

Three44s

Yes sirie, Nice to load great flat points or armor piercing stuff for those hard headed blackies.

[MOA]

The blackies of Arizona. A shot of my oldest best friend and hunter with a Arizona Blackie. This guy makes me look like a piker when it comes to hunting and hunting experience. Two days to get this guy out of the woods with two people.

[ranchman]

I've had an encounter or two with bears over the years and I've seen things play out somewhat expected and others in ways I didn't expect at all. Times I had a rifle, times I had a bow and other times I had something on my hip ... to cut it short though, and comment on the OP's what's enough comment, I'd say by my own experience something along the lines of that echoed old 200+ grain 1000fps 40cal or bigger adage. And the heavier the bullet over 200 the better.

41's & 44's are where I like to stick myself, they can be as specials or magnum so long as a guys loaded in the relm of what I said up above. Mine go with 250/260gr keith's or wfn designs and where I expect bears I carry them loaded around 1200fps. The extra weight in a 250/260gr chunk of lead breaks bones & immobilizes better than smaller cal bullets could ever do, and the inherent diameter of these 41's & 44 calibers open bigger holes to move more tissue along their path for increased hemorrhaging and more blood & air loss than what smaller cal's can inflict too. I've seen 230-ish weight bullets out of a 41 @1250 break two shoulders & the spine with a high shoulder hit on one particular black bear that refused to quit during a track job a few years back. The shot at that point was 25-30 yards... and I'm not convinced I'd want anything less than that if I were expecting such a scenario to play out in front of me ever again.

So warm 44 special, 41special, &/or either one as a magnum is personally where I'd say the best bottom end calibers and power thresholds begin. I know wardens who barely skinned by scrapes with bears & even cougar using their issued 40s&w's. They worked, but just-just. I'm still taking my heavier hotter 41's or bigger. The step up from 41+ is where ballistics begin to really hotstep the smaller stuff, regardless of velocity or bullet.

[fcvan]

My first bear encounter was at 14, hiking Yosemite. A sow stopped in the middle of the trail in front of me and another hiker. I told him to dip his head and back up 10 feet. The sow looked at us the turned up the hill and grunted. A cub came down and crossed the trail. The sow continued to stare us down before grunting up the hill again for the other cub. Tense moments for sure.

Now, I see more bears in my back yard in Colorado Springs, a densely populated city. I've also seen mule deer hanging out in the back yard on a daily basis. This also caused a mountain lion to hang out on the sun porch to wait for dinner to come by. I have seen coyote, red fox, big horn sheep, and antelope walking down my street. The wife has taken plenty of pictures of the bears with the security cameras, they keep coming back because she feeds them fruit, ugh! She also feeds the mule deer and they come right to her when she calls them. She started doing that when a buck was hit by a car so she nursed him back to health. He kept coming back for 5 years. The wife asked what do I call him? I said "Bob."

Hiking, I sometimes carry a Glock 22. I don't have a 44 magnum, but the wife has a RSBH. My 'big gun' is a S&W M57 with an 8 3/8" barrel but I generally carry a Ruger OM Vaquero in 45 Colt loaded with heavy boolits at 1200 fps. Heck, the original loading with BP had a 250-255 grain slug chugging along at 1000 fps. Plenty for black bears.

[pmer]

I just choreographed a favorite load from the 4" model 29 44mag. MP503 clone with 11.7-Bluedot gets it to just under 1000 fps. It's a sleepy load but comparable to the old 45 Colt standard.

1300 fps in a 22 inch rifle barrel.

[popper]

Ages ago in a far away galaxy ( maybe Tetons?) bears walked among us. On the paved path. IIRC they were browns & I think mama was teaching them how to panhandle. Have some family pics of them on top of cars, poking heads in windows, etc. Was told browns can't climb trees but never tested the theory.

[Markopolo]

if you ask me, Black bears moan, wuffffff, snap and hiss.... i have never heard one roar. i once watched a broan bear kill and eat a large black bear and durring the fight with the 2 bears, all I heard make much noise was brown bear victor... i used to trap problem black bears in culvert traps for the feds, and never heard a black bear roar... just a lot of moaning and carrying on, snapping of teeth, and hissing. but that dont mean they dont... I have just never heard it.

[Tripplebeards]

That black bear growl video is some funny stuff.lol....that’s not from a black bear. I’ve heard them let out some low pitch dog wuffs when they charge dogs baying them on the ground.

[white eagle]

I think to be well protected from these marauding vicious black bears
a woods walker auoght to have a 12 ga loaded with slugs or a
500 Linebaugh minimum
the only growl I have ever heard from a black bear is a death bawl

[Gray Fox]

MOA: What is that red pointed boolit you load? GF