I carry my Xdm 10mm in a chest rig. A few years before I moved here they killed a 450lb black bear about 100 yards or so from my place. Even got some pics of Momma and three cubs. Doubt I will ever need to use it but I might if my dog Ruger decided to play hero and protect me.
i would say your 44 special is a fine weapon against blackies. You like the gun and have been carrying it for a long time... confident in the weapon...
on a charging bear, you shoot for center of pass and keep firing till the bear is down. 5-6 shots from a 44 cal anything is a lot of lead... but most of the shots will be off center I figure, as nerves come into play.. shoulders break the bear down and chest just kills it. any hit is going to have an effect on the bear, head shot just stuns them unless you come in from the side. i hit one once from the side near the ear with a 44 and it blew the top of the skull clean off along with most of the brain... not a pretty sight... i was aiming for behind the skull . it was a very close shot.
my wife carries the 38 lady chik cuz it fits her small hand... i load it down with 4g of bullseye and the 358429.. at first I was a bit worried about this load, but she has a good grip on the gun and practices with it.. and it fits her hand..
my son carries a 357 with the same boolit loaded with 13g of 2400... he likes the gun and says its easier on his hand then the 44 I shoot.
i am a huge fan of the regular ol 44 mag loaded with the lee 310's shooting a max load of 2400.. we don't have brown bears around here on my island but see black bears almost every time we are out in the woods part of the year. I got used to the combo, know where it hits, and am comfy with it...
moral of the story is, shoot what you are used to, comfortable with, can stay on target with after successive shots. you might only have a second or 2, and trying to wield a ungainly hand cannon your not used to my not get you anywhere except mauled or eaten... and most of all, practice.. be a quick draw kinda guy... we use stumps... walking around on a practice session and I yell "bear" and the wife and kid draw and shoot into the nearest stump short range... even with all the bears around here, i have yet to have to shoot one that wasnt being hunted for self defense... but I have had my pistol out a few times and even fired a warning shot. i still practice.
hope this helps.
Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!
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My only encounter was at Jenny lake and all I had was a hatchet. Fortunately we went opposite rather fast. I was ~14 yrs old.
Whatever!
Markopolo - good info. Tho I only quoted a little to save reposting the whole thing, I think your whole post is full of good real world info.Originally Posted by Markopolo
It is likely just good luck I have not had any more large cat, bear or mama moose encounters considering the lifetime spent out among them as well as the location of the homes I have lived in.
I think there is a lot of great insight from all who have taken the time to post. I think I need to keep the 44 special on me from here forward.
Thanks and keep them coming. Especially the great bear pictures.
Chill Wills
How about the lowly 480 Ruger? 400gr bullet @1000fps is possible and (according to a former neighbor) easier to shoot than a hot 44 magnum S&W or SBH.
I carry a Glock G20 filled w/ rounds that are loaded to the cartridges potential. I can control this pistol easily. I can’t say the same for revolvers chambered for anything above 357 Magnum. I’m concerned w/ quick follow up shots and I can’t achieve this w/ the likes of a 44 Magnum.
I alternate between a 44 special Lipsey BH, 45 Blackhawk and Smith 69 44 mag in bear country. Interesting comments about hitting a bear in the skull. Unless you are shooting almost straight down you have a target at an angle with heavy bone. I believe to the side of a head pointed down and approaching is far better in an attempt to break a shoulder. Most bear stories I have listened to directly from the shooter mention how quickly a bear goes down when you hit heavy bone. They may not stay down but if you can put one down for a second or two the follow up shot is much better.
[The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze
Always good to hear from those who have been there and done that.
Paper targets aren't your friends. They won't lie for you and they don't care if your feelings get hurt.
I tried a 10mm for this idea but just couldn't get the thing to be happy at the upper end of its capability. Got a plain Jane model 29 with a 4" barrel. It's light enough and has a little more velocity than a snubby.
Oh great, another thread that makes me spend money.
There is another beargun theory that hasn't been brought up. Always pack a .25 auto, never go alone. If charged by a bear, shoot your companion in the kneecap. Then run.
read it.Very interesting. I was surprised at the success of the smaller calibers.
https://www.wideopenspaces.com/list-...last-20-years/
Seems like a very unlikely event. Note that none of the victims had any kind of gun. I have lived in bear country for 7 years and never had a bear look me over like a buffet bar. They just run away.
If a bear starts acting like I might be dinner a shot in the dirt will likely send him scurrying. If not, I better get lucky with the other 15 rounds. I have seen a bear run...they are amazingly fast when motivated. I would shoot them like any other attacker...center mass until the threat is defeated or the magazine is empty. KISS.
BTW, the bears here in upper Michigan do not seem hard to kill or agressive. Most of ones the locals harvest are 140-225 lbs. 350 is a BIG one. So I opt for more chances to make repeated hits than hoping for a well placed shot at a running target with a larger caliber. I carry a Glock 22. It is all I can handle accurately and I can "waste" a warning shot that in all likelihood will defuse the situation,
Don Verna
In the wintertime when walking the dog around the place I usually carry a Ruger BH 4 1/2" 44 Special with Oregon Trail laser cast .431" 240 grain SWC's on top of 6.5 grains of Unique for a velocity of @900 fps. I carry it in a re-purposed M3 shoulder holster. Carries nicely under my field jacket. After reading the comments I think I am in pretty good shape for our small black bears, feral hogs and feral dogs. I can hit with it, and know that I can.
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I've lived in the southern Blue Ridge Mountains since 1968. Used to deer hunt, trout fish and backpack a bit. I've seen quite a few black bear but never felt threatened so I've never pulled a gun on one, never mind shot one, nor do I know anyone who has. But the big ones are BIG and they do move fast when motivated.
As a practical matter for most social work with bipeds and for all bears I see the .357 and .44 mags as the best choices. For ME, it's the .44 .... for others maybe the .357 will do. But a 9mm? Well, guess I'd rather have that than a cue stick. Remember the 9 mm is just an auto loading +P .38 Special with light for caliber bullets and that ain't much for motivated bear medicine!
I have a .357 Black Hawk and a S&W 29 I'm comfortable with. Prefer to carry the .357 with 170gr. SWC but feel much safer around bears with the big .44 mag loaded hot with H-110 under my own 250 gr. SWC boolits; that will break most really big bones.
I've often wondered about experienced shooters being so sensitive that even a recoil absorbing single action .357 with hot 170 gr loads is too much.
My wife and I practice with lighter reloads while concentrating on trigger squeeze plus rapid sight realignment. We just let the recoil from an occasional few full power loads take care of itself.
We are seeing a population explosion among the black bears here in my part of KY. They have been seeing several younger bears within a mile of the house. And they aint afraid, 150-200# bears. One went for a dip the other day in the lake, climbed out on the dock of marina and took a nap. About 30 miles away, at a farm we co own with the wifes 2 brothers, and they are thick out there. They did a number on our field corn when it was in the milk stage 2 years ago, out of 200 acres total, they ate about 5 acres, there would be places gone in the field, twice the size of a house, with big piles of bear scat. I got 6 on one trail camera going into the fields, the littlest one was about #300, the biggest had to be pushing 500. We have a very screwed up season here, it is a money racket, and they dont allow baiting. Every bear that has been killed was killed over bait, the only way you can keep a fall bear in the area. They caught my brother in law, fined him $700 and court costs. I know when I see one, if I have a gun, he will be invited home to dinner. 5acres of field corn, at 165 bushels of corn per acre, at $7 per bushell, hurts my bill fold. Most folks hereabouts have decided the same thing, and thumb their noses at the game laws. One guy called the game wardens repeately about a bear eating his cow feed, eating his garden. Finally one of the game wardens told him to get his shotgun and shoot the bear, he would wait on the line. Well he hears the farmer get his gun, shuck around in the chamber, go outside and "bawoom". He waits on the line and he hears the screen door shut and the farmer comes back in and picks up the phone. The warden asks him well, did that work. The old farmer says it shore did, that deer slug dropped him in his tracks!! The game warden has to go out and pick up the bear, do a ton of paperwork, but doesnt do anything to the farmer. He does question him about shooting the deer slug, the farmer tells him I figured if it was for a deer, might work on a bear. I usually care a .357, .44 sp or .44 mag. A .41 mag or .45 colt would do as well, i suspect.
I worry about those who plan to carry a .38 for bear defense. Seems a might light for the encounter. If that's what you got, it's far better than an empty hand. The one boolit I would consider would be the "Bullet For All Seasons" in Glenn Fryexl's article. About 215 grains of semi-wad cutter pushed as hard as the frame would allow. Having gotten a few bears, which admittedly weren't hard to kill, I still cling to the bigger is better school of thought. For an interesting search on the web, look up Bella Twin and her 1953 record brown bear kill. (Not the wrestling twin girls named Bella, either). Bella Twin a Cree woman in Canada.
Never had an encounter with a bear, even when I was looking for one!! When I was looking for one I was carrying a rifle. When we lived in NW Wyoming and I fished the tall and uncut there was the possibility of also running into Ol' Ephraim. I carried a Freedom Amrs Mod. 97 in 45 Colt loaded with 300 gr. hard cast at 1050 fps. For a hunting load that's more than adequate fo black bear. If an altercation occurred I would hope it would have been enough. Had I bumped into a griz….well, thank God I didn't. Around here it's not impossible one could run into a black bear. Given there ain't no griz in Missouri and I'm almost 20 years older, my load has dropped to a 255 gr. KTSWC at about 850 fps or my 44 Spl. with the ever faithful 429421 in my 696 S&W at about the same velocity. I would hope either would be adequate.
I'd prefer a rifle..as I'm sure most would but, as mentioned, a fella ain't doin' much fishin' if he's packin' a rifle.
Last edited by sharps4590; 07-01-2020 at 08:46 AM.
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I live in black bear country. theres bear in my yard every year and at camp too. I don't ever think about strapping on ANY gun because of bear. now if it were brown bear or griz territory I might reconsider but black bear are not aggressive and 99 times out of a 20 percent of the time all you will see is there back end running away and the other 80 there long gone before you even see them. lately I have been carrying a handgun when I walk the dog in the woods though. But not for bear. The wolf population has exploaded around here and I hear them howling every night and have ran up on them a few times this summer on the walking trail. Even then I don't carry a gun to protect myself. Its more to protect my dog if he is attacked. Black bear protection is a walter middy thing. Guys like to think there dangerous because it makes them feel a bit more manly being brave enough to walk in the woods where they are. Even the bear hunters up here that use dogs for the most part use a lowly little 357. Ive killed quite a few of them and if anything a deer is harder to kill then a black bear. Most black bear when wounded seldom run more then 50 yards and lay down. A wounded deer will run for miles. I always tell the story of when I was a young lad watching my ma shoe black bear off our porch with a broom. I chuckle at the city tourists up here. First thing they will ask is if theres those evil man killing black bear around. Like I said this is big black bear territory. probably the largest consentration of black bear in the state is in our county and ive never heard a single story of an unwounded black bear attacking a man. NOT ONE.
^^^ yep, I agree. I know a lot of people got out of hunting with dogs years ago because the wolves keep killing them.
Imo, Realistically any handgun will do for a black bear because all you’re basically carrying a noisemaker to scare it away. A bear with cubs is about the only realistic threat I’ve ever encountered. She trees her cubs and stood up on her hind legs looking at me and my buddy. We had about a 100 yards or less between us. My buddy and I backed out of the area. The cubs came down and they went peacefully in the opposite direction. I did have a little black bear, approx 150 pounds, walk right up to me and I poked it in the nose with my cocked crossbow. I was squaring in the ground looking at another arrow that was stuck into a tree at the time that passed through a 7’6” Bruin that’s rug is currently in my wall. Anyways the little bear had its nose against the ground and never saw me till I poked it. I turned around and ran the opposite direction....and so did I. I got half way up Into my tree stand to wait for my guide and heard another crack. There was a 250 pound plus bear under me. I didn’t get out till the guide came to get me and help me retrieve my bear. I’m sure if I would have yelled and put my hand up a both bear would have fled from the scene. I was hunting and Didn’t want to spook away my entertainment at the time.
I’ve never been in Grizzly country and to me that’s whole different game. Imo packing a pistol would like taking a knife to a gun fight with a Griz.
This has got me thinking now I think I’d rather carry my Ruger P 85 Mark 11 9 mm since that holds 16 rounds versus my 44 Magnum that takes me a second or two to recover from a shot. I can load up 16 in the mag. I’d use some Lyman devastator HPs for some shock value. I can pull the trigger as fast as I possible and all my shot will land where I aim.
Last edited by Tripplebeards; 06-30-2020 at 10:12 AM.
Just last year added a charter arms 44 special 4” target bulldog to my collection. It weighs something like 19 oz. unloaded. I see it’s safe for tier 2 loads. That a 245 grain bullet at 900-1000 FPS out of that barrel. Out of 5 shots from the gun, most likely a few will be lethal to the black bear. While the gun is a bit uncomfortable with loads getting close to those specs., that will be the last thing on my mind should I need to pump the bear with rounds.
I too load that 195-200 grain bullet for 38 special in a plus P loading. Currently only pinging steel with it as it makes a bigger “ting”. I think it’s a great bullet for improving 38 performance but if given the choice, I would carry the charter 44 bulldog.
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