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Thread: Handgun for a lower 48 black bear encounter

  1. #41
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    The thing you need to consider is not how much gun do I need to stop a black bear, but how much gun do I need to come out alive in a worse case scenario, and carry adequate iron for THAT.

    It seems downright silly to carry a 44 Special when in the same size gun you can have SO much more power in the 44 Magnum. 45 Colt is one of the lightest cylinders and barrels in a Ruger because of the size of the ammo, and can be loaded to out perform the 44 Magnum in a suitably strong gun.

    The real bottom line? Carry as much gun as you can shoot accurately. DA Ruger, DA S&W, loaded as hot as you or the gun or both can handle. Any excess of energy not needed after putting an animal down is inconsequential.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  2. #42
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    I've shot big black bears here in Kanada, and if allowed a handgun I'd go .44 mag. .45 Colt heavy load or .454 Casull, these are made in small enough revolvers for carry. I've shot big blackies with a .44 mag. Marlin with 300 gr. LBT bullets and the end result was positive.

  3. #43
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    Was thinking about this some more...yep...that can be a problem.

    I have never had to shoot a man or critter that wanted to kill me. My little pea brain says that if a bear rushes me, I will not be Cool Hand Luke. I allows focus on the front sight, but will I do that when attacked or just keep looking the bear and pulling the trigger? Basically point shooting??? I would hope muscle memory and training would make me use the front sight but I do not know.

    Knowing I have a Glock, will my panic revert me to throwing out as many rounds at the threat as I can? Would knowing I only had 6 shots subconsciously condition me to be more deliberate?

    Comments from those how have been in harm's way (critter or man) would be interesting.

    Training conditions us to perform a certain way and not always the best. I will always remember a story about a Police department that investigated police shootings. Back then, they used revolvers. During range practice they were encouraged to police their brass by pocketing the empties before a reload...to avoid having to clean up the range floor. They found that a couple of men who had died had empty casings in their pockets after being killed in shootouts. What if those men had not wasted time pocketing brass...would they have lived?
    Don Verna


  4. #44
    Boolit Master Dapaki's Avatar
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    You all must have some BIG black bear! I live in the center of Minnesota, bear are so common that I see them about as much as I do deer, just not in the same numbers. Our CO's carry 9mm, more than enough to stop a raging bear if one would be called to do so but most of our bears are skittish and just standing on tiptoes and spreading your arms, and yelling will scare the crap (literal expression) out of the animal.

    .357 is more than enough to stop a bear around here, 45-70 would be EXTREME.

  5. #45
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    Bigger is always better, both in bullet weight and caliber .....................if you're willing to put up with the increased weight. I don't feel under gunned with my 44 Special Bulldog that weighs less than 20 ounces unloaded. You need to nearly double that weight to move up to 44 Magnum.

    Winelover

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Knowing I have a Glock, will my panic revert me to throwing out as many rounds at the threat as I can? Would knowing I only had 6 shots subconsciously condition me to be more deliberate?

    Comments from those how have been in harm's way (critter or man) would be helpful
    The only time I felt harm was in my way was with a rattle snake at my feet. I had an open carry 45 ACP on my hip, loaded, safety on. Without a thought the gun came out and was making noise till it stopped moving. No time for using the sites that I was aware of, I seemed to be more conscious the bullets striking the ground on and near the snake. For those couple seconds my brain seemed to be in a different gear. I had a prairie dog rifle in my off hand and 3-4 rounds left in the 1911.

    Now if your using a Glock half the shots will be missed
    Oh great, another thread that makes me spend money.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    The thing you need to consider is not how much gun do I need to stop a black bear, but how much gun do I need to come out alive in a worse case scenario, and carry adequate iron for THAT.

    It seems downright silly to carry a 44 Special when in the same size gun you can have SO much more power in the 44 Magnum. 45 Colt is one of the lightest cylinders and barrels in a Ruger because of the size of the ammo, and can be loaded to out perform the 44 Magnum in a suitably strong gun.

    The real bottom line? Carry as much gun as you can shoot accurately. DA Ruger, DA S&W, loaded as hot as you or the gun or both can handle. Any excess of energy not needed after putting an animal down is inconsequential.
    “Carry as much gun as you can accurately shoot” .... pretty much sums it up!

    For years I avoided the .44 Mag like the plague, instead drawing the line at .357 and later at .45 ACP. The grizzly bear sighting on our cow mountain range changed the perception of what I could need. Black bears were a nothing as far as I was concerned. While that grizzly apparently moved on, the increased prevalence of black bears as well as their loss of fear with some individuals is a factor to recon with.

    So my first experience with the .44 Mag was pretty harsh as an owner. I was shooting factory loads to acquire brass and gun and cartridge were stone cold new to me. A Ruger Redhawk with factory wooden grips is hardly the way to begin!

    I soon found that a pair of Uncle Mikes rubber grips fit my mitts much better and through loading the cartridge down to about 100 FPS faster than .44 Special levels (but in magnum cases) that the .44mag is a real kitty cat. I bought empty brass by much greater amounts and have not bought anything factory in the chambering since.

    Once I became bored with the 44spl. +100 power level, I raised the bar. Step by step I discovered another “rung on the ladder” and loaded higher and higher. Changing powders, primers and bullets along the way.

    Even today I always begin with those “specials plus 100” in a session and work my way up. My top end is the upper limits of the revolver within reason but only a cylinder or even less.

    I know I am a broken record on the subject but my over the top favorite load for the 44 Mag is the RCBS 250k boolit in a magnum case lit by a Mag primer (I like the Federal 155) launched by upto 12 gr of HS6 (my load is 11.8 gr.). It is not a bear stompin’ load but it would do in a pinch because it just about duplicates Elmer Keith’s “44 Special Magnum” load he tried to get the ammo makers to load.

    1176 FPS out of a 7.5” barrel vs Keith’s 1200 FPS

    In my 4” Smith MG, the above HS6 load produces 1066 FPS with just 7 FPS SD. It an authoritative load but still sweet as to recoil.

    I can already hear the chorus warming up extolling the virtues of just stuffing more Unique instead of switching powders to the likes of HS6 but that reaction misses the point. We are talking cast boolits here and softening recoil impulses. HS6 @ 12 gr or a bit less keeps peak pressures in the “range” for lead and “more” Unique does not.

    So my point is a 44 Mag can be whatever reasonable you want it to be, it’s your choice. Plus the superior flexibility of the cartridge when hand loaded and cast for is EXCEPTIONAL!

    Three44s
    Last edited by Three44s; 07-01-2020 at 08:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207

    “There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”

  8. #48
    Boolit Mold
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    Well, I'll take note of these. You never know when you're going to run into a bear in the wild.

  9. #49
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    I would think that these iron clad bears seeking human food that are terrorizing the lower 48 need the U.S military
    do not venture out with any gun stay home even if you can shoot like Annie Oakley
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    I live in black bear country. theres bear in my yard every year and at camp too. I don't ever think about strapping on ANY gun because of bear. now if it were brown bear or griz territory I might reconsider but black bear are not aggressive and 99 times out of a 20 percent of the time all you will see is there back end running away and the other 80 there long gone before you even see them. lately I have been carrying a handgun when I walk the dog in the woods though. But not for bear. The wolf population has exploaded around here and I hear them howling every night and have ran up on them a few times this summer on the walking trail. Even then I don't carry a gun to protect myself. Its more to protect my dog if he is attacked. Black bear protection is a walter middy thing. Guys like to think there dangerous because it makes them feel a bit more manly being brave enough to walk in the woods where they are. Even the bear hunters up here that use dogs for the most part use a lowly little 357. Ive killed quite a few of them and if anything a deer is harder to kill then a black bear. Most black bear when wounded seldom run more then 50 yards and lay down. A wounded deer will run for miles. I always tell the story of when I was a young lad watching my ma shoe black bear off our porch with a broom. I chuckle at the city tourists up here. First thing they will ask is if theres those evil man killing black bear around. Like I said this is big black bear territory. probably the largest consentration of black bear in the state is in our county and ive never heard a single story of an unwounded black bear attacking a man. NOT ONE.
    I tend to agree Lloyd but a hungry boar bear will attack and eat a human. Many documented cases of that.
    "If everyone is thinking the same thing it means someone is not thinking"

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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dapaki View Post
    You all must have some BIG black bear! I live in the center of Minnesota, bear are so common that I see them about as much as I do deer, just not in the same numbers. Our CO's carry 9mm, more than enough to stop a raging bear if one would be called to do so but most of our bears are skittish and just standing on tiptoes and spreading your arms, and yelling will scare the crap (literal expression) out of the animal.

    .357 is more than enough to stop a bear around here, 45-70 would be EXTREME.
    I don't see tons of bear down by me. I live by St. Cloud. I spend a lot of time around Brainerd, Huntersville, Akely, etc. I don't think I've ever seen a bear that wasn't running away. They are so smart and docile. Not like the deer, that stare at you. My family has lived around central MN for generations, and I honestly cannot remember a single person who has even had a close encounter. Many of my family hunted them until the DNR stopped selling tags without outrageous wait times. On the other hand I've had some odd encounters with bucks. My grandpa was clobbered to a pulp by a deer in Hutchinson back when he was 25-30 years old to save another person who was also being attacked. He spent days in the hospital, and the story is still posted at Hutch manufacturing.

    I have no idea what a brown bear is like, but black bears are awesome creatures. The keep to themselves, and don't bother anybody. The worst they do is steal food.

  12. #52
    Boolit Master
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    Some neighbors of mine had a black bear growling at them behind their house the other day.

    Three44s
    Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207

    “There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three44s View Post
    Some neighbors of mine had a black bear growling at them behind their house the other day.

    Three44s
    Black bears don't growl. They moan if scared, as well as snap their teeth, both of which are signs of fear. But they do not growl.

  14. #54
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    Some call it a roar some call it a growl. I had two large bears do this when I was setting bait before the season opened. I was backing the bait in on foot and they either didn't hear me or didn't care. They were fighting over the remaining bait. I believe the largest would have went 450 plus. I admit my 44 Mag Ruger Blackhawk didn't seem like I was over gunned at the time. That was about double the size of the one I took when the season was open.






    I've been about 60 yards away from 9 foot grizzly bears a couple of times. The power and speed they have is truly impressive. I've never killed one but a very good friend has a grizzly bear guide service. He has personally been on site when 200 plus grizzly bears have been taken. He has been charged by client wounded bear numerous times. When he first started he used a 300 Win Mag than a 338 Win Mag and he settled on 375 H&H. A couple of clients used 338 Lapua Mags they equaled or surpassed the 375 for thumping them.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 07-01-2020 at 10:57 PM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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  15. #55
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    Twenty-five fatal black bear attacks have occurred in North America during the last 20 years. Here are the stories behind each.

    https://www.wideopenspaces.com/list-...last-20-years/

    My sister knew this lady and the attack was about 1/2 mile from my sisters house.

    Lana Hollingsworth (61) - July 25, 2011 - Pinetop-Lakeside, Arizona
    Hollingsworth was attacked by a 250 lb black bear while walking her dog at a country club. Nearly a month later and after eleven surgeries, she died from a massive brain hemorrhage, which doctors believe was a result of the attack. The bear was tracked, shot, and killed.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 07-01-2020 at 10:58 PM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  16. #56
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    Whatever is in that video is not black bear, maybe some is. in fact near the end seems to be a wolf. The following site has been incredibly informative. Here is a fight between bears, surprisingly quiet. https://bear.org/do-black-bears-growl/

    At 1.25 black bear attacks per year in the entire united states of America, I think it is safe to say it is no concern.

  17. #57
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    This is from your site https://bear.org/do-black-bears-growl/

    "sometimes the huffing has a throaty quality. Also, bears sometimes sound a bit throaty when they pounce, blow, and slap the ground. Whether these are growls depends upon each person’s definition.

    If a person ever were to hear a growl, it seems like it should be during a fight. In this video-taped fight, we hear loud, pulsing, deep-throated sounds. Researchers are not sure what to call those sounds other than simply describing them.
    "

    I've only witnessed one bear fight between what appeared two large males. The sounds I heard were very close to the sound a 2:11 in the last video only somewhat more throaty and much more frequent. One site claimed the last video was a mating fight. The one I witnessed was much more of a serious fight than shown in the video. I had a deep freeze go bad and in the first trip I had placed about 20 pounds of questionable venison summer sausage a bunch of bakery thrown out donuts/pastries. This was the third time I had placed the summer sausage/donuts/pastries at that bait sight. I had gone back to my truck to get a 40 pound bag of dog food but the landowner was driving by and we shot the breeze for close to an hour. When I went back they were in full out fight. I guess it possible that the were burping or farting but considering into went on for several minutes I kind of doubt that was what was the source of the noise.

    The 1.25 per year is fatal attacks not total attacks.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 07-02-2020 at 02:38 AM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  18. #58
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    A pair of blacks fought about 50 yards from my ground blind one day of an outfitted Canadian hunt. It was not quiet. The "bush" kept me from seeing them, and I wasn't going into the thick stuff for a closer look. Everywhere we've traveled from Glacier Park NW to Denali Park we've been told that where black bear share space with grizzlies, the blacks are the more aggressive. I'll believe the black bear hating locals, thank you.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master MOA's Avatar
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    44,s have always had a special place in my heart when hunting. Carry 8" 29 when elk hunting and for desert pigs. Carry the bulldog when fishing. Lots of blacks along the Salt river.





  20. #60
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    At 1.25 black bear attacks per year in the entire united states of America, I think it is safe to say it is no concern.
    Good for you! I totally support your right to not be concerned with bears.
    For me, I’ll prioritize my safety and continue carrying a revolver on my hip - better to have and not need than need and not have.
    "Truth is treason in the empire of lies" Ron Paul

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