Belt spindle head lathe help

[barrabruce]

Looks like the little Jet lathe I ran in 1999 when I first started my first job in a machine shop!
Buy a linked belt so you don’t have to take it apart to replace the belt.

Yep next time I will not be disturbing anything if not needed.
Ha
Good to have it ALL to bits and a retune.
See what I actually bought.
Hopefully I maybe able to make something agricultural with when I’m finished.
I’m waiting on bearings and seals for it.
Hopefully I can get some good grade bearings.
Every manufacturer has their own std’s and labeling if you can find a catalogue with tolerances in it.

Keeping me occupied while it’s raining.

[barrabruce]

I’m trying to sort out some of the possibilities to put this back together and get the spindle pre loaded and running true.
I’m figuring a slow drying Loctite so one could assemble everything and hopefully tweak things into place.
Or am I being just anal about this?

The bronze bushings in the pulley drive seem to have no play on the face of it when assembled.
Well they don’t rattle anyway.
I think I’ll leave them as they are.
The bull gear lock pin is a bit loose in the drive and it can rattle about 1/2 a tooth being not bad but only slightly flogged out.
I cut another with a drill and reground it on an angle grinder to get more depth of engagement.
Attachment 264685.
Hopefully it won’t tink or make wild finish on the work piece.

I’ll have two engagements now so I can keep the good one for fine finish cuts or just keep drilling new ones balancing up the gear as well as lightening it.See how much or any it improvements will be made.

Hopefully I can get some p5 bearings the end of next week.
If things work out.
They are not that easy to find when you want them.

Fingers crossed.

I can’t see any beater grade making much difference.
But I would like to try and get the best out of them.

The only thing I haven’t messed with yet is the electric motor.
Maybe I should check the bearings in that too.

One day maybe making chips.

I’ll post more if anyone is interested.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yes a Speedy Sleeve is the correct fix for your problem. They are sold at any Bearing House which you probably have in the bigger cities in AUS.

They work great on any Seal Runner that is gooned. Crank Seals on engines get worn and leak due to dirt. Speedy Sleeve is the fix for that too.

They come in a Bazillion different sizes so you should be able to find one that will work.,

Randy

[Scrounge]

I’m trying to sort out some of the possibilities to put this back together and get the spindle pre loaded and running true.
I’m figuring a slow drying Loctite so one could assemble everything and hopefully tweak things into place.
Or am I being just anal about this?

The bronze bushings in the pulley drive seem to have no play on the face of it when assembled.
Well they don’t rattle anyway.
I think I’ll leave them as they are.
The bull gear lock pin is a bit loose in the drive and it can rattle about 1/2 a tooth being not bad but only slightly flogged out.
I cut another with a drill and reground it on an angle grinder to get more depth of engagement.
Attachment 264685.
Hopefully it won’t tink or make wild finish on the work piece.

I’ll have two engagements now so I can keep the good one for fine finish cuts or just keep drilling new ones balancing up the gear as well as lightening it.See how much or any it improvements will be made.

Hopefully I can get some p5 bearings the end of next week.
If things work out.
They are not that easy to find when you want them.

Fingers crossed.

I can’t see any beater grade making much difference.
But I would like to try and get the best out of them.

The only thing I haven’t messed with yet is the electric motor.
Maybe I should check the bearings in that too.

One day maybe making chips.

I’ll post more if anyone is interested.

I'm still interested.

[barrabruce]

Well here is something different.
Attachment 264905
I can’t see how this is supposed to seal the oil in.

One side of the bearing chamber has. Slip over collar with set screws to hold it in place.
There is an integral groove which maybe a o-ring should have been placed in there.

The opposite side has a key groove all the way through it.

The oil seals seat on the outside of the bushes but there seems to be nothing stopping the oil leaking out.
The oil level is about centre line of the spindle.

Maybe you pump a bit of silicone in the key way before tightening up the bearing caps and preload them before it sets up.

Or maybe it is a slow total loss system like the norton type quick change gear box.

Any ideas here folks?

[Scrounge]

Well here is something different.
Attachment 264905
I can’t see how this is supposed to seal the oil in.

One side of the bearing chamber has. Slip over collar with set screws to hold it in place.
There is an integral groove which maybe a o-ring should have been placed in there.

The opposite side has a key groove all the way through it.

The oil seals seat on the outside of the bushes but there seems to be nothing stopping the oil leaking out.
The oil level is about centre line of the spindle.

Maybe you pump a bit of silicone in the key way before tightening up the bearing caps and preload them before it sets up.

Or maybe it is a slow total loss system like the norton type quick change gear box.

Any ideas here folks?

1. https://metalworkforums.com/f65/t199...millan-ml-36-a this looks like it's similar or the same as your lathe, and it's also where link #2 comes from.

2. http://machine.archives.verhey.org/f...fe8d87dae6.pdf

This is supposedly for a lathe similar to yours. The diagram of the headstock shows three oil seals. Parts key on the following page lists the dimensions of the the seals. Looks like a standard labyrinth seal, and that may be enough info to get them. It should at least help you figure out where to measure to figure out what you need for yours, IF it's as close as I hope. Good luck!

Bill

[barrabruce]

Attachment 264917
Is it supposed to seal on the yellow machined faces.
It would make sense then.
The bearings are the same but the seals are slightly different size.
Thnx

[barrabruce]

Attachment 264918
This shows the position roughly where it will be with the gear spacer must have a gap to provide take up and preload.
There is a very fine surface on the sleeve and bearing to provide a seal.

The other side has grub screws to provide pressure to seal it on the otherside of the bearing race.
The bearing is a light press fit on the shaft.

Weird ain’t it.

Now I have it figured out I’m pretty sure it’s one of those just works if it just perfect things.
Ha and I thought it was going to a problem child.

[Scrounge]

Attachment 264917
Is it supposed to seal on the yellow machined faces.
It would make sense then.
The bearings are the same but the seals are slightly different size.
Thnx

I'm not there looking at the machine, but I believe the area I've colored in blue is the actual seal area for Seal #4 in the parts list.

That part is on the list as #36 Spur gear. Opposite side of the bearing is another seal, #30, but the drawing isn't showing a ring like you have in your photo. There is a ring there, but it looks like it's very narrow. Or I'm going blind, which is distinctly possible. In either case maybe this isn't good enough for what you need. I'll hunt as I can and see if I can find anything that matches the photos you took. Better tech data is always good.

Bill

[barrabruce]

No I think you are right.
I got a good size seal to go I the bush with the groove.

Apparently it is a feature of these lathes they leak or they don’t.
There is a small area between the chamfer on the inside of he bearing race and the key groove in the "spur gear" and its outside chamfer..
Call it a bees Willy.
It must have been made to exacting "Engineering drawing specs" Just gotta love’ Em.

I’m thinking if one was lucky a drop of Loctite just there would provide a seal.

A Soft copper crush/seal washer but Unable to find a suitable thickness.

I may dam up the key way on the gear side with plastic metal and a wrap of ptfe tape may provide a seal on the take up lock washers.

So many options that may sorta work.

Thnx for your help and effort you have gone through.
I find these things interesting/ perplexing too when I see them.
If you figure any else out let me know.

[barrabruce]

Well finally got some p5 bearings from *** in Germany.
I had manicured the spindle pretty good with the old bearings for fit as well as everything else.

I had a sleeve made out of bronze for the non obtainable bearing seal to fit a normal stock one.
Cost me a swag.
Ghee I am gunna be rich if I can charge like that.
I could have made it myself if I had a lathe or more importantly been able to find some 3" bronze to cut it out of around here.

Any hoo I’m over it.
I spent a hr or so scraping in inside out for the sleeve to fit into it. 5thou

It all fitted it all back together without hitch.

I put the inside bearing seals in the headstock first then used my bit drill chuck to hold the spindle with the main outside bearing Against its seat.
The spindle kept pretty centred with a bit of drop.

The bull gear went on with a bit of Loctite and a smooth tap/shove with the pully wheels.

The bearing sleeve that ubutts the Pulleys I put an Oring in and set screwed it in place.

Holding up the now sagging spindle with all this weight on it and getting the back bearing and tightening sleeve on was the defining moment but somehow managed to get the flange with the seal and all on without tearing the Seal or getting into trouble.
This is where I needed a few extra hands but some how survived to ordeal of juggling everything thing.

I did leave a bit of DNA and blood samples to prove I actually dundit thou.

Have made a few chips and have been tuning it in here and there.

Got an annoying tink in a gear in the banjo but I think it is the spigot that holds the banjo and it pivots off is a bit out of sorts.
And the back gears make a bit of a noise.
I think it is mainly due to the fact they are are bit loose on the shaft and may put a gear nipple on there and grease fill it to help firm it up a bit maybe.

Made some tool holders for 1/4" round tool steel because I thought I ordered 2x pieces and ended up with 2x packets of 5 pieces 4" long.
Wondered why they seemed spendy at the time.

Well here she is as it stands at the moment.
Not a bad finish for a bit of gal water pipe at that length hang out.
I may need to tweet the bearings a smidge as it left a hardly see able vibration wave;but I might bolt it to the stand properly first and put something under the metal feet.

Attachment 265647
Attachment 265648

I don’t think Harry Pope would have had much to worry about.
Ha

The most important thing after I make a bench and put the grinder on a stand is..

How do you keep all the tiny bits of swarf from following you around into house.

[uscra112]

Gotta wonder about engineers who design things that can't be assembled without bloodletting.

Something I learned in my early career in the machine tool biz: Timken spindle bearing preload needs to be adjusted for a target RPM. Set 'em tight and you get good runout at low RPM, but they'll heat up if you run the spindle fast. Set 'em for high RPM, and the runout at slow speeds deteriorates. Made it very hard to pass a runoff test sometimes. deVlieg actually had an hydraulically adjustable preload in some of their later machines.

[Scrounge]

Well finally got some p5 bearings from *** in Germany.
I had manicured the spindle pretty good with the old bearings for fit as well as everything else.

I had a sleeve made out of bronze for the non obtainable bearing seal to fit a normal stock one.
Cost me a swag.
Ghee I am gunna be rich if I can charge like that.
I could have made it myself if I had a lathe or more importantly been able to find some 3" bronze to cut it out of around here.

Any hoo I’m over it.
I spent a hr or so scraping in inside out for the sleeve to fit into it. 5thou

It all fitted it all back together without hitch.

I put the inside bearing seals in the headstock first then used my bit drill chuck to hold the spindle with the main outside bearing Against its seat.
The spindle kept pretty centred with a bit of drop.

The bull gear went on with a bit of Loctite and a smooth tap/shove with the pully wheels.

The bearing sleeve that ubutts the Pulleys I put an Oring in and set screwed it in place.

Holding up the now sagging spindle with all this weight on it and getting the back bearing and tightening sleeve on was the defining moment but somehow managed to get the flange with the seal and all on without tearing the Seal or getting into trouble.
This is where I needed a few extra hands but some how survived to ordeal of juggling everything thing.

I did leave a bit of DNA and blood samples to prove I actually dundit thou.

Have made a few chips and have been tuning it in here and there.

Got an annoying tink in a gear in the banjo but I think it is the spigot that holds the banjo and it pivots off is a bit out of sorts.
And the back gears make a bit of a noise.
I think it is mainly due to the fact they are are bit loose on the shaft and may put a gear nipple on there and grease fill it to help firm it up a bit maybe.

Made some tool holders for 1/4" round tool steel because I thought I ordered 2x pieces and ended up with 2x packets of 5 pieces 4" long.
Wondered why they seemed spendy at the time.

Well here she is as it stands at the moment.
Not a bad finish for a bit of gal water pipe at that length hang out.
I may need to tweet the bearings a smidge as it left a hardly see able vibration wave;but I might bolt it to the stand properly first and put something under the metal feet.

Attachment 265647
Attachment 265648

I don’t think Harry Pope would have had much to worry about.
Ha

The most important thing after I make a bench and put the grinder on a stand is..

How do you keep all the tiny bits of swarf from following you around into house.

Guy I talked to once some years ago kept a pair of work shoes in the shop, and changed into another pair when he left the shop. Cowboys here(believe you folks call them drovers) had boot brushes near the doors to brush off the grunge those folks get on their boots. Something like this, with stiff bristles might work for you: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...42648cb9d10dcc or this: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...duct_7173_7173

I'll be looking for something like that soon, myself.