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Thread: Belt spindle head lathe help

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Belt spindle head lathe help

    Bought a 40 yr old Clanger Taiwanese lathe and tearing it down to fix and use.
    Getting the bull gear off the main spindle was a big effort as it is a interference fit.
    Or it is now.
    I ended up dinging the area where the seal runs.
    I could borrow a lathe and polish it out I think and be good to go as well as the gear shaft so next time I need to change a belt it will be only a 4 day job.
    Ha
    Attachment 264116
    It looks worse than it really is but with new seals and a polish up I think it will work.
    The gears are sort of soft but it does have double taper bearings.
    I don’t know yet if I’ll change out the bearings out as they seem o.k. and run them as they are.
    It has been run dry for a while hence the galling where the bronze pulley bearings run.
    It’s not in too bad a nick for it’s age.
    I sorted the gear box out On the saddle which was put back to gather wrong and the quick change gear box.
    Found a few missing bits.
    It hasn’t been used much thou.
    Some machinist help here would be welcome.
    Thanks.
    Bruce

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrabruce View Post
    Bought a 40 yr old Clanger Taiwanese lathe and tearing it down to fix and use.
    Getting the bull gear off the main spindle was a big effort as it is a interference fit.
    Or it is now.
    I ended up dinging the area where the seal runs.
    I could borrow a lathe and polish it out I think and be good to go as well as the gear shaft so next time I need to change a belt it will be only a 4 day job.
    Ha

    It looks worse than it really is but with new seals and a polish up I think it will work.
    The gears are sort of soft but it does have double taper bearings.
    I don’t know yet if I’ll change out the bearings out as they seem o.k. and run them as they are.
    It has been run dry for a while hence the galling where the bronze pulley bearings run.
    It’s not in too bad a nick for it’s age.
    I sorted the gear box out On the saddle which was put back to gather wrong and the quick change gear box.
    Found a few missing bits.
    It hasn’t been used much thou.
    Some machinist help here would be welcome.
    Thanks.
    Bruce
    I'm only a student machinist, but I've been a mechanic for a while. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. Do you have a manual for the lathe?

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Thnx scrounge I have downloaded a couple of generic manuals for this.
    It was build in ‘81 labeled Mcmillian.
    It has a blistering speed of 1240 rpm full noise
    Have a grizzly and lantane manual which is mostly the same same with maybe a few differences.

    Attachment 264117

    With it’s 1 hp motor and tool steel I’ll be as good as it gets for 1910.
    Ha
    But I’m in no great rush and a belt driven lathe it pretty quiet running only the belts.

    How rough can a shaft be and the oil seals still work?If it goes bad I could always get a one of the seal sleeves that fix shafts up. With the flange and you press on then rip of which leave razor sharp burrs that slice new wipes like butter.
    Last edited by barrabruce; 06-27-2020 at 02:50 AM.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I’ve been thinking.
    My concern is if I make the bull gear a looser fit then it would be only the key way holding back all the cutter force while in the lower gear ratio’s.
    I suppose if it doesn’t rock it should be ‘ok.
    What does the brains trust think?

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    There are thin steel sleeves made for repair of damaged rear main bearing seal journals in engines, without having to take the engine apart. The metal is only about .015 thick, so the original dimension seal can be used. Where you get 'em I don't know, but the internet might help. If you have another lathe, you might even be able to make one. I'd use hard brass, in the case of your lathe. RPM is low, and there's no pressure behind the seal.
    Cognitive Dissident

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
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    It's only a lathe. As long as the oil level is below the shaft it probably wont leak.
    It seems as the top plate is hinged, just open it and give the bearings a squirt of oil whenever you start up the lathe.
    This was common practice in the days of bushing bearings.
    Cap'n Morgan

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrabruce View Post
    Thnx scrounge I have downloaded a couple of generic manuals for this.
    It was build in ‘81 labeled Mcmillian.
    It has a blistering speed of 1240 rpm full noise
    Have a grizzly and lantane manual which is mostly the same same with maybe a few differences.

    Attachment 264117

    With it’s 1 hp motor and tool steel I’ll be as good as it gets for 1910.
    Ha
    But I’m in no great rush and a belt driven lathe it pretty quiet running only the belts.

    How rough can a shaft be and the oil seals still work?If it goes bad I could always get a one of the seal sleeves that fix shafts up. With the flange and you press on then rip of which leave razor sharp burrs that slice new wipes like butter.
    Does it pump oil to the bearings, or use splash, or what? Except for the little asian 7x10, my lathes are vintage 1940's, so they use total loss lube. You fill the oil cup each time you get ready to run the lathe, and refill if you're going to be there very long. The 7x10 apparently has no provision for lubing the headstock at all. A lot of the folks using them mod the headstock to allow lubing the spindle one way or another. You could add a means to do that and not sweat the seal at all, perhaps. The Atlas just got new felts the other day. The South Bend 10L is a total restoration project that's been hanging fire for over a year and a half. It's not near running yet, but uses similar cups from Gits Manufacturing. Amazon has a bunch of possible solutions: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=gits+oil+...l_321i180vqz_e from Gits and others.

    Here is a link for a drip oiler for inspiration: https://myfordboy.blogspot.com/p/drip-feed-oiler.html

    There are thousands of them available commercially, but I've got a little project also hanging fire to make some from 1oz jars from Michael's, the art & home decoration store, for my Lewis shaper. Depending on how much oil you think you need you could go with anything from a gallon jug to a half-pint jelly jar, or any kind of tank or bottle. One of the short-term jobs I had, I rigged similar oilers for a conveyor system using laundry detergent bottles and vinyl hose. Proprietors were too cheap to buy something, and had fired their maintenance guy some months before I started working there as a temp.

    Did I mention that I'm a cheap bastrich? The 10L will get (as best I can) the proper Gits oilers, but I'm probably making everything else I can just for the experience of doing it.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

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    The raised metal on the dings ( this is what will destroy the seals very quickly) can be removed with careful use of a file or backed fine sand paper, If you want to get real energetic A very small polished ball peen can be used around the outside working in lightly to move the metal back where it came from first.

    On the bull gear does it have a set screw locking it? A lot of machines gears and hubs were fit with gib keys. the top face of the key and bottom of the key way are at a 5* taper and fit so a few taps set them tight. Draw back is they have to be fit together. If you go this route drill and tap a threaded hole in the big end for future removal LOL

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    There are thin steel sleeves made for repair of damaged rear main bearing seal journals in engines, without having to take the engine apart. The metal is only about .015 thick, so the original dimension seal can be used. Where you get 'em I don't know, but the internet might help. If you have another lathe, you might even be able to make one. I'd use hard brass, in the case of your lathe. RPM is low, and there's no pressure behind the seal.
    Speedi sleeve
    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    That's them. Couldn't remember the name.

    https://www.mcmaster.com/speedi-sleeves/

    Pity the don't have 'em in metric sizes.
    Cognitive Dissident

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Well it’s all metric made imperial lathe.

    I don’t want to hopefully take it apart again and I thought if I’m going to make chips with this I may as well start with new bearings as well and give myself some hope.
    I ordered new tapered bearings and seals.
    and a speedy sleeve (which I couldn’t remember either) which being imperial is 59.12 mm or about 4 thou over the 59mm dead nuts shaft so a bit of Loctite ought to fix that bungle.

    The bearings are fed by oil caps up the top of the bearing housings in the headstock and Form a individual reservoir that must be splash fed about centre hight of shaft.

    The sight glasses need to be prised out to empty and the hole emerges at the centre of the glass meaning one should fill the sight glass up to ensure there is actually oil in there. This is on this one anyway.Hold about 100ml maybe???

    The large bull gear at the front of the head stock Is held in with key which is (==) shaped end milled into the shaft And a friction fit.
    I reset that fit which is now a light press fit so it can be tapped on and off without excessive force and duress.
    I’m hoping that will be enough.
    I could alway loctite that in place if it becomes an issue.


    The belt pulley and small bull gear assembly only rotates when in slow ratio’s and the minor galling on the bronze bushes at one end should not be detrimental given the speed.

    I’m starting to think I should’ve got some of that linked belt.

    Probably work out the same price in the end.
    I’ve already wasted $25 Aus on it for the belts and two small bearings and odd and sods.
    May as well sell the dog for scientific ex -spearmints too.
    Last edited by barrabruce; 06-29-2020 at 01:04 AM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Attachment 264193
    Supposed to look like this mostly.
    But mine is just an empty box at the moment.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Sounds like you've got it under control.

    Whoa! Do I see a vee-belt that's running in oil? Say it ain't so, bro!
    Cognitive Dissident

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Check the bronze bearings inside of the pulley that goes behind the back gear. The ones in my 1953 Sheldon lathe are so worn it has a tick as it goes around as the bore in the pulley bearings is larger than the spindle. I've got a set of over sized bearings that at some point I'll set up and machine to fit the pulley and spindle correctly. The sheldon doesn't have any seals on that pulley so you squirt some oil down a setscrew oil hole before using the back gears.

  15. #15
    Boolit Man
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    Not a machinist but 50+ years heavy equipment field repair. Seal surface ding: From the looks of the picture, I would be inclined to use a fairly fine carborundum stone or oilstone stroking the ding circumferencially until you can no longer feel it with your fingertip. A little prussian blue, if you don't trust your fingertip. "Fixed" several rock crusher shafts this way. Holding the bull gear: Loctite 680 is truly the mechanical marvel of this century, I have saved customers thousands of dollars since it came on the market a few years ago.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Attachment 264208
    The skewers are put into the holes that form the fill hole and sight glass.
    There is a seal in either side of the bearing housing that forms the bath.

    Only if you get excited with the oiling of the bushings will you get The belts to run in oil on this machine.

    It is a simple lathe and pretty quiet with out the drive chain of spur gears running.
    Should just purr when I’m finished hopefully.



    The pulleys and other gear are a close fit still in the bronze bushing so they should be good to go.
    Yes you have to take out a grub screw to oil the bushings to run the back gears.

    I had a tick also when running with the belts that just about fell apart.
    I found the pulleys on the motor drive end we’re loose and could run up and down on its shaft.
    It was slopping on the key when the belts hit the missing bits.tightening the grub screw helped.
    Ha

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    So the gears run dry? Or maybe with some sort of tenacious grease?

    (Come to think about it, my old Pratt & Whitney with the flat belt drive was like that.)
    Cognitive Dissident

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    The older Taiwanese lathes of this size(13x40) generally have an odd bearing on the spindle .....looks like a conventional taper roller ,but the outer race is also tapered on the OD fit into the casting.......these are no longer available ,just the cylindrical OD race version of the same bearing.......so do check this feature before removing bearings for rplacement............and ,no the V belt doesnt run in oil........neither do the gears .....just rely on a bit of grease.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moleman- View Post
    Check the bronze bearings inside of the pulley that goes behind the back gear. The ones in my 1953 Sheldon lathe are so worn it has a tick as it goes around as the bore in the pulley bearings is larger than the spindle. I've got a set of over sized bearings that at some point I'll set up and machine to fit the pulley and spindle correctly. The sheldon doesn't have any seals on that pulley so you squirt some oil down a setscrew oil hole before using the back gears.
    I checked mine and have 7 thou on one end and 8 thou clearance on the other end of the 51mm shaft.
    It has gauled ? where it was run dry at the ends. Inch or so
    But it would have been a bit tighter fit.
    There is a oil feed groove cut into them ending in a circumference groove. That’s where the gauling is.
    They’re is play and I hope it don’t go tinker tink ��

    John K the bearings and seats are parallel in this one. It must be a modern one built in 1981.
    I don’t know how big a swing it has till I put it back together but it’s about 3.5" over the apron to centre height.

    Getting good bearings maybe an issue.
    Std ones run about 0.001" tolerance.
    The low end precision ones 1/2 that then I think it goes till your money runs out.

    Don’t know much of a difference it would make.

    I wonder if 1 thou in 2" or 4" equates to 5 ten thou at 1”
    Last edited by barrabruce; 07-03-2020 at 03:16 AM.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master


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    Looks like the little Jet lathe I ran in 1999 when I first started my first job in a machine shop!
    Buy a linked belt so you don’t have to take it apart to replace the belt.

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