Load DataInline FabricationRepackboxRotoMetals2
MidSouth Shooters SupplyWidenersReloading EverythingTitan Reloading
Lee Precision PBcastco
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 47

Thread: Did my die or Jwords do this?

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,491

    Did my die or Jwords do this?

    I tried to load up 180 grain hot cores in some brand new RP 35 whelen brass today. I FL sized the brass like always with a brand new set of RCBS dies. I then went through the process of trimming, chamfering, deburring, primed, fillEd with powder, And tried to seat my Speer .358” hot cores. Here’s what happened...




    I wrecked two cases and then sent all the rest of cases back through My FL sizer again figuring I didn’t adjust my die properly. I seated the first two bullets smoothly...then the next one crunched the case again. After I wrecked to two more cases. I stopped with any resistance and started grabbing bullets one after another auto try and found out that some would seat smoothly. I measured the ones that wouldn’t. Most that wrecked my case necks and wouldn’t seat were .3595” to .360.5”. I was blaming it on my die set at first but I’m guessing it’s my to big of diameter bullets? I called speer and they are having UPS pick them up for inspection and replacement IF they measure out to large on diameter. I might cover all my bases and all RCBS or see if they can send a replacement neck sizer insert? Any other ideas what might have caused this? I swear I went through this same issue with the same bullet years ago loading in my 35 Remington as well. I thought I sent the bullets into speer and they replaced them as well. So I believe it’s the second time around with the.358 hot core. I wonder if the lead is expanding from sitting around for 15 years or they just were not sized correctly right off the bat. The Speer rep said he hadn’t seen issues like this in years. I told him they were Probably 12/15 year old boxes I bought new and I just opened the first one and the other one I still sealed he didn’t seem to surprised. I wish I would have quit after I wrecked the first new case as the RP 35 Whelen cases are as common as unicorns.

  2. #2
    Banned

    tomme boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    5,200
    Needs more inside chamfer or bell the mouth

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,491
    I agree belling the mouth would definitely work like I do with cast but I wasn’t aware I had to do that with J words? After the first go around years ago with my 35 Remingtons they have been seating just fine with this bullet. When I felt resistance the bullet started expensive but got stuck in the first 1/16” of the neck. Any more pressure and the case distorts.

  4. #4
    Moderator


    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just outside Gun Barrel City, Texas
    Posts
    9,430
    I'd bevel inside the case mouth first.

    The bullets may not have enough bevel/taper to go in without 'snagging' the top of the neck.

    If the bullet dia. is all within spec. and the neck isn't too thick, the expander ball isn't too small from wear-
    give the cases a little bump with a 'M' die.
    In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
    In life: We are given tests, and learn lessons.


    OK People. Enough of this idle chit-chat.
    This ain't your Grandma's sewing circle.
    EVERYONE!
    Back to your oars. The Captain wants to waterski.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,491
    When I measured the Problem bullets were .0015 to .002” over Speers spec according to their rep. I’m going to see if RCBS will send a replacement expander ball. The dies are brand new. I’m paranoid now the ball might be out of spec as well?

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

    BigAlofPa.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Shamokin/Coal twp Pa.
    Posts
    1,670
    I had to get a larger expander for my Mosin. The stock one i was shaving boolets when seating them. I had crushed some cases on the shoulder resizing when i 1st started rifle. To much lube was the cause.
    One round at a time.
    Member of the NRA,GOA and FAOC. Gun clubs Zerby rod and gun club. Keystone Fish and Game Association.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master TheDoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Needville, TX
    Posts
    652
    I've had that happen when the case hits the crimp shoulder before the bullet is fully seated. A seating only die, no issues. A seating/crimping die, die adjustment will get ya.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Cecilia, Kentucky
    Posts
    6,689
    Personally, I use an M die with jacketed bullets that are flat based. I never got the hang of balancing a bullet on a case with no bell.

  9. #9
    Banned

    tomme boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    5,200
    Factory ammo is belled to speed production. If you have an extra station in a progressive it will speed up your production too as you do not need to chamfer the inside. Been doing this for years for my 223 range ammo with jacketed. Your seating die will remove the bell when you seat a bullet. Or run a Lee crimp die to do it. done it both ways

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    JSnover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sicklerville NJ
    Posts
    4,379
    Quote Originally Posted by Winger Ed. View Post
    I'd bevel inside the case mouth first.

    The bullets may not have enough bevel/taper to go in without 'snagging' the top of the neck.

    If the bullet dia. is all within spec. and the neck isn't too thick, the expander ball isn't too small from wear
    -
    give the cases a little bump with a 'M' die.

    Bingo! Too many variables. I've found a lot of flat-base bullets that have enough of a radius to enter the case without prepping the mouth... until I hit one that doesn't, for any of the above reasons.
    Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Half Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Grand Prairie, TX
    Posts
    1,106
    I had a similar issue that was caused by the seating stem not fitting the profile of the bullet. It was seating the bullet at a slight angle.
    The sooner I fall behind...the more time I have to catch up with

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

    jcren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    South, Central Ok
    Posts
    2,172
    I just loaded a bunch of 35 remington with Hot Cores and had issues with them wanting to hang on the case mouth. Just used the lee universat to bell them a bit and it worked fine.
    "In God we trust, in all others, check the manual!"

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,491
    Quote Originally Posted by jcren View Post
    I just loaded a bunch of 35 remington with Hot Cores and had issues with them wanting to hang on the case mouth. Just used the lee universat to bell them a bit and it worked fine.

    My cases cut even ring around the hot core bullet bases I removed that would not seat. These were on the ones I could feel pressure while lowering my press handle and wouldn’t seat. I stopped the process before they would have crushed the necks. I inspected them to make sure they were all started evenly as well. Since Speer is good enough to have my send them back in I’ll get them inspected just to be safe since some were measuring as big as 360.5”. If I have the same issue I’ll start being my case. I remember it wasn’t my 35 Remingtons that had this issue but another caliber and it wasn’t from setting my die up properly. That’s why I went through and resized my brass again. All components are brand new...RP brass, RCBS dies, and Speer bullets. Speer told me their bullets should be .359” at the largest and I had a lot at .3595” to .360.5”. IMO they still should slide right into my brass. I’m wondering if my RCBS neck sizer ball is to blame? I’ll get a replacement ball from RCBS and if it happens after trying and new ball and bullets I’ll start belling the necks with my lee universal die like I do with cast.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    Posts
    21,289
    Quote Originally Posted by Bazoo View Post
    Personally, I use an M die with jacketed bullets that are flat based. I never got the hang of balancing a bullet on a case with no bell.
    The easiest solution......
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,491
    I’ve heard of the M dies but never seen or used one. How do they work?

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

    BigAlofPa.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Shamokin/Coal twp Pa.
    Posts
    1,670
    One round at a time.
    Member of the NRA,GOA and FAOC. Gun clubs Zerby rod and gun club. Keystone Fish and Game Association.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master

    jonp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    8,281
    I've loaded those bullets in new brass for my Whelen with no problem. I suspect an incorrect set die. I seat and crimp in 2 steps. I'd try doing that.
    I also use a Lee Universal mouth expander flaring just enough that the flat base will go into the brass and balance the bullet but no more
    I Am Descended From Men Who Would Not Be Ruled

    It is not with strength one will prevail; those who oppose The Lord will be broken

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master

    mdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So. Orygun
    Posts
    7,237
    A .308" slug is very difficult to insert into a .305" tube without providing an entryway. I flare or use an M die on all my handloads, lead or J...
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  19. #19
    Moderator


    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just outside Gun Barrel City, Texas
    Posts
    9,430
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripplebeards View Post
    I’ve heard of the M dies but never seen or used one. How do they work?
    It does the job of the mouth flaring die for straight wall pistol cases.
    In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
    In life: We are given tests, and learn lessons.


    OK People. Enough of this idle chit-chat.
    This ain't your Grandma's sewing circle.
    EVERYONE!
    Back to your oars. The Captain wants to waterski.

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master

    mdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So. Orygun
    Posts
    7,237
    https://www.lymanproducts.com/rifle-...panding-m-dies Yep, two diameters and second step/diameter also can add flare...
    My Anchor is holding fast!

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check