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Thread: Best sight for Enfield N°4?

  1. #1
    Boolit Man Bouteselle's Avatar
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    Best sight for Enfield N°4?

    Gentlemen,

    I just bought by chance an Enfield N°4 rifle, Savage made, rebarreled twenty years ago in 6,5x57R, Sabatti barrel. Perfect condition, as new.
    I wanted something to replace my K31 for target shooting, I've never been able to shoot it correctly.

    First, does someone know the reputation of Sabatti barrels? I paid this rifle half the price, and I'll have no problem to change the barrel by a Lothar, or something similar, if I have to do it.

    Second, I'd like to buy a good diopter, but which is the best? Parker Hale 5C or Parker 4/47? I also found the Brindles, a little more expensive...

    Thanks for your advice!

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    My friend Giorgio in Italy says the Sabatti barrels are very good. Here in the USA the preferred replacements for the No.4 are made by Criterion, but I don't know if they are exported to the EU. In the past I used Lothar-Walther barrels and they were also excellent, but expensive here.

    The Parker-Hale or Central sights would be best if you can find one, but the A.J. Parker 8/53 conversion fitted onto the Mk3 battlesight is entirely acceptable. Not familiar with the earlier A.J. Parker 4/47 or Brindles, as they are rarely seen in the USA.
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Man Bouteselle's Avatar
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    Here in the USA the preferred replacements for the No.4 are made by Criterion, but I don't know if they are exported to the EU
    Yes they are. Pretty expensive, but I could find some. I'll try first the Sabatti!

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Good info on all PH sights for the #4 rifle:

    https://www.rifleman.org.uk/PH_Service_sights.html#5A

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
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    I run the PH sights on most of my P14, M17, No.4's and SMLE's. Most are fitted with 6 hole adjustable eyepieces, perfect for my old eyes. They are not cheap but well worth the price.

    A lot of these sights can be found in either New Zealand or South Africa/

    Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    There used to be a barrel maker here in New Zealand. They made a three-groove barrel.

    Anyway, if you decide to change that barrel, let me know. It would be perfect for me although I probably couldn't afford it but still, let me know anyway.

    But I'm betting that your 6.5 will shoot too well for you to want to change it.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  7. #7
    Boolit Man Bouteselle's Avatar
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    As Sabatti made express rifles, I fear barrel twist is low, for lights bullets.
    I'll pick up the rifle next week, and I'll shoot it, we'll see.
    For the moment I have to save a few bucks to buy this sight.

    Anyway, if you decide to change that barrel, let me know. It would be perfect for me although I probably couldn't afford it but still, let me know anyway.
    I’d give it to you with pleasure, but it won’t get through customs!

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bouteselle View Post
    I’d give it to you with pleasure, but it won’t get through customs!
    Thank you for the kind thought. Pity about customs. Our customs would be no problem. But I strongly suspect it is going to satisfy your needs.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  9. #9
    Boolit Man Bouteselle's Avatar
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    I send and I receive barrels with no problem as long as they're not chambered.
    But you will allow me to doubt the kindness of your customs....!
    I remember having a very bad time twenty years ago, as I came for the black powder world championships at Adelaïde. She was a very pretty girl, but she wasn’t happy at all when she found black powder in my suitcase....

  10. #10
    Boolit Man Bouteselle's Avatar
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    I made a mistake, you're in New Zealand...

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Yes I am. We are more relaxed here although there are people trying to impose more restrictions following the massacre we had recently. As a result I had to have my 15 shot 22 Remington reduced to 10 shot. It's a tubular magazine - no one is going to go on a murder spree with a tubular magazine 22 rifle! 15 shot was awesome. Every now and then I would just top up the magazine till it was full. Now I have to count them cause the filler port is still at the 15 round point. Anyway, it is what and I still have my rifle.

    But the restrictions are to do with military style assault rifles. Luckily my pump action shotgun is a five round or I would have lost it.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    Yes I am. We are more relaxed here although there are people trying to impose more restrictions following the massacre we had recently. As a result I had to have my 15 shot 22 Remington reduced to 10 shot. It's a tubular magazine - no one is going to go on a murder spree with a tubular magazine 22 rifle! 15 shot was awesome. Every now and then I would just top up the magazine till it was full. Now I have to count them cause the filler port is still at the 15 round point. Anyway, it is what and I still have my rifle.

    But the restrictions are to do with military style assault rifles. Luckily my pump action shotgun is a five round or I would have lost it.
    How sad that your government does these things.

  13. #13
    Boolit Man Bouteselle's Avatar
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    It's at home now.
    I have to make a little money and I'll buy a sight. By the way, I received this morning a MVA 1886 tang sight... ordered three months ago!








  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    What a beauty! I always say the No4 is the most beautiful battle rifle ever made and yours is certainly a fine example.

    It's got an interesting crown. 45 degrees it looks like, or is it just a recessed crown?
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  15. #15
    Boolit Man Bouteselle's Avatar
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    I prefer the Lebel rifle!
    Good rifle perhaps for shooting, but parts don't have the same number
    But what crown are you speaking about??

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    The muzzle crown in your last photo.

    I've never seen a Lebel.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  17. #17
    Boolit Man Bouteselle's Avatar
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    It seems to be a 45°

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Not ideal but it might shoot fine just like it is.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    Not ideal but it might shoot fine just like it is.
    The WW2 armorer's crowning tool for the M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, BAR and .30 Browning machineguns had a removeable, 2-inch long, .2995" diameter pilot centered on an 82-degree 7-flute countersink held by a 2-inch diameter knurled knob which could be inserted and lightly turned by hand to remove small dings and burrs from the muzzle.

    IF a correctly-fitting pilot is used in combination with a common countersink, so that the cut is made concentric and square to the bore axis, the results will be quite satisfactory. Prior to using this tool, the muzzle would be checked with a Go/NoGo plug gage to determine if the crown was worn from cleaning rod wear, in which case machinegun barrels would be subjected to a "stripping" test, firing a long burst through yaw cards and examining the target for wild shots outside the core group. For M1 Garand rifles an 8-shot mean diagonal of 3 inches at 50 yards fired off a rest was deemed "serviceable" in forward combat areas.

    An expedient field check is to insert the bullet nose of a round of Ball ammunition into the muzzle. There must be at least 1/4" space between the muzzle crown and where the ogive of the bullet stops.

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    The ENEMY is listening.
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  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    How much difference does the crown actually make if there is no muzzle wear? Apparently an 11 degree is optimal but I see that the recessed square crown is used a lot. I do mine that way because it is easiest and is not sensitive to bore run out relative to the steady.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check