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Thread: NIB unfired 336CB in .38-55

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master
    Mk42gunner's Avatar
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    NIB unfired 336CB in .38-55

    I happened upon the title rifle a few months ago, and really want to break it in right. The eventual plan is to have it be a cast boolit shooter. I have a few molds, gas checks and one H&I die along with a set of high dollar Redding competition dies (this has been a several year long gathering project).

    My question is: Should I start with a few jacketed rounds first or just go straight to cast? The barrel seems smooth when I pass tight patch through it. Without digging it out of the safe IIRC it was built in 2001.

    My 1894CB in .45 Colt from 2000 has never seen a red-coated pretender and has never leaded, but it does operate at quite bit lower velocity.

    Don't really want to put a scope or red dot on it, but failing eyesight may make that a moot desire.

    Thanks for your input,

    Robert

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    You won’t know unless you try a few boolits.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Randy Bohannon's Avatar
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    I have plenty of rifles that have never seen a jacketed bullet, I see no reason to copper foul a bore for a rifle destined for cast only. Just go with cast and all will be well, I almost universally use 16:1 alloy for everything unless a need arises to push things faster.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Good morning
    Our daily fodder using smokeless for whatever needs shot at or shot is 50-50 (WW-range scrap) in lever rifles. PB can be run up to 1350 fps easy.
    Cast fit is far more important than the mix. You might be surprised how well well range scrap shoots all by itself... It may slump some going down the tube but it will sure mash whatever is in the path. A 255 grain .380 slug chugging along at 1150 fps filled RR cars for the Eastern meat markets.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  5. #5
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    I have been shooting a LOT of .38-55 the past couple of years. I did cast some with the Lee mold and had some of dad's, then lucked into an estate sale close out of several thousand commercially cast of various weights.

    Bottom line, it shoots them all well. The load data from my old Lyman manual is pretty light, but that's OK, Either nine grains of 700X or ten grains of Unique seems to be as accurate as I can shoot it with any of those plain based bullet.

    I found that the RCBS Cowboys dies cut my group size more than half. The other dies I was using apparently caused the case to squeeze down the bullets to be under sized. Check with the expander plug in your Redding dies is.

  6. #6
    Banned bigted's Avatar
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    Ensure your chamber size and groove diameter. Modern 38-55 barrels are almost all .375 instead of the old .380. Some old barrels go as much as .384.

    Take a fired case and just litely flair the crimp away. Measure the inside of your case to find the combo of the case/bullet diameter your chamber wants.

    Drive a SOFT lead .400+ diameter ball down thru your very well greased barrel. I would use a 50 cal pure lead ball pounded thru the greasy barrel. Measure the high points of your slug to find what your groove diameter is in the barrel.

    Now armed with this info, you can make an educated decision as to what diameter of mold to buy. Also as mentioned above, this gives you the diameter of expander/flair stem to buy.

    Also if the utmost accuracy is desired ... do a cast of your chamber to determine the exact length your chamber wants brass length wise. I do a crayon cast myself. This is easy peasy to do and gives an exact cast of your chamber case length. You can then buy the correct length brass to ensure that your brass is clear to the end of your chamber (within .005 inch to allow case growth) so your correct size boolits transition from case mouth to rifling with no gap at the case mouth/rifling start to ensure no obturation into this gap before re-squeezing into the rifling.

    Fun stuff my friend. Have fun with your rifle.

    As for eyeball problems ... try a good peep sight on the wrist (like mva or lyman style fold down lollipop style) or an action mounted peep (like marbles or Williams's style). These greatly improve sighting options as you focus on the front sight and allow your eye to automatically center the peep ring. All that is required is a proper diameter of peep ring so you can see clearly thru it and focus on that front blade/bead.

  7. #7
    Banned bigted's Avatar
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    Also forgot to comment on breakin ... at least the procedure I use in all my cartridge guns;

    I buy 1 ONE box of Factory shells and the cheapest I can find at that.

    Fire 1 shell and then begin with hoppes #9 and a good new tight BRASS brush and brush that bore 20 times followed by clean patches to dry the barrel.

    Fire the second and repeat the procedure. Continue this with the first 10 ten shells and brushing/cleaning exercise.

    Now shoot 2 shell at a time and the same brush/patch exercise till they are all 20 fired thru your new barrel.

    In theory this irons the metal HAIR down without trapping brass underneath. Once this is done, the bore is smooth and easy to clean and if cared for will remain for life.

    Paperpatch boolits will and can do an even better job then the brass bullets. It takes around 100 of these tho and they make a mirror like finish on the inside of your barrel unmatched by ANY other method. Just takes a little more finesse with wrapping and single shooting ... AWWWWW!!!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    When I got my Legendary Frontiersman I learned it needed a .479 boolit. My RCBS dies had an expander plug that handled a .477 boolit, but caused swaging of larger ones. I called RCBS customer service and explained my problem and they said they would send the larger diameter one for the cowboy dies at no cost, which they promptly did. Great service and it provided the solution to my problem. GF

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master
    Mk42gunner's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies.

    Thinking back, without actually digging through the shelf of dies, The reloading dies I have are a set of RCBS Cowboy dies, with an accessory Redding micrometer seater (I never understood the need for a micrometer on the seating stem, regular ones are threaded already) and a Lee factory crimp die. I bought all that stuff plus a bunch of .40-65 stuff at a local gun show probably fifteen years ago for about a third new cost from a guy that was helping a recent widow out. I didn't even try to under cut his prices.

    Hopefully I can get it all together this summer, depending on health, the weather and other projects.

    Robert

  10. #10
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    I don't know how good/bad your vision is but I'm in your camp with not wanting to scope that rifle. I put a Skinner Express sight, F/R, and it works for me. I have had my share of eye problems and if I concentrate, use the right size aperture rear and a large enough target, I can get 1 1/2" out of my Marlin CB 45/70.Attachment 263800Attachment 263801Attachment 263802 I got the rear sight filler plug because I removed the buckhorn rear sight so I could see the new sights and it makes a really smooth levergun profile. The day will probably come when I will have to put a different setup on this gun but it works for my 72 yr old eyes now.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!

  11. #11
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    Texas by God's Avatar
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    I’ve thought about trying some jacketed bullets in my 38-55. Twice, I think. Then I thought about something else. Those things cost money, my cast boolits are free.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    I have a friend that bought one of those when they came out. He had probs with that small chamber, larger bore dia. thing that everyone was eventually talking about then.He was unable to chamber a boolit that was large enough dia to shoot well. I think he eventually got it to shoot with .380 boolits and Starline brass because it's thinner than the Win brass he was using and helped the chambering.

  13. #13
    Boolit Bub R. Dupraz's Avatar
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    Mk42gunner:

    Those Marlins are fine rifles. I have been using a Marlin 336CB regularly with cast for lever action silhouette for at least 15 years. The cast bullet problem is typical with these guns because of what has already been written. The chamber throat is smaller than the groove diameter of the bore. The fix for this is to ream the chamber with one that is just made to open up the throat of the chamber. One of the gang in the club is a gunsmith and after he got the reamer and opened up the throats of our marlins they all shot cast bullets like gang busters.

    Eye sight dilemma

    After I got my 336CB I installed a Williams micrometer sight made for the 336 and replaced the eye disc with an adjustable Merit eye disc and then mounted a taller post front sight with a brass bead. Solved the iron sight problem. Then had cataract surgery. I am pushing 76 yrs on this here earth and can still use irons pretty well yet.

    Bullet

    I use two bullets in my Marlin. The lee379-250-RF PB with IMR 4227 and the RCBS 375-250 -FN GC with IMR3031 Both sized to .380" Starline short brass.

    Hope this is of some use. Good luck

    R.
    Last edited by R. Dupraz; 06-21-2020 at 09:03 PM.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    .280?

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Part of my dilemma is that I have a full box of Barnes 250ish grain bullets from the same estate guy at the gun show, kind of a package deal, but those are pretty expensive bullets to just throw at the berm. Did I mention I'm cheap, err I mean frugal.

    I have slugged the bore I don't remember the dimensions right now, but I ordered a H&I die that should be compatible. I didn't notice any tight spots at the chamber when pushing the slug through, so here's hoping.

    I do have the Lee mold, with customized puppy chewed handles, still works but you really need gloves on that one. I also have one of the GB molds that was ran by Buckshot way back when (I did say this was a multi year want didn't I?) and one of the Lyman GC designs. Since I'm frugal I hope the Lee PB works okay.

    I may have to spring for some Starline brass, but there is a 100 round box of new WW brass on the shelf, so that gets tried first.

    As to eyesight, I'm 55 and am resisting getting bifocals, but have noticed an increase in fuzziness this week so...

    Robert

  16. #16
    Boolit Bub R. Dupraz's Avatar
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    Thanks for catching that T-Bird. Made the correction. It's such a long way between that PC between the ears and the fingers anymore.


    Mk42gunner:

    I can surely identify with the frugal and cheap part as well. I didn't mean to imply that your Marlin will have this problem, only that I know that it was common with some of those 336CB 38-55's. Yours may not. Just relating some info. Should have clarified that.

    I would just try it out and see how things work. You may very well have all the fixings that you need already. Just another way to "skin the cat" so to speak. I also load with the RCBS cow boy dies.


    My Lee 379 250 mold drops cast bullets just large enough that I can size them to . 380", so lucked out there for a change. My Marlin will put those Lee PB castings right next to each other at 50 yards

    R
    Last edited by R. Dupraz; 06-21-2020 at 09:49 PM.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    My 336 CB 38-55 performs very well with my deer load:
    with
    Lyman 375449 9+1 ww/lino sized 0.379" over 28 gr Re 7. in WW cases
    beltfed/arnie

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Go right to cast and skip the jacketed. As to velocity if you start with 10 grains of Unique powder and a 250-275 bullet it won't be a problem and top velocity for the 38-55 even in the Marlin will be under 1900 fps and Carnuba Red lube will insure that there is little to no leading. Actually I have pushed the 45 colt to the same velocities in the Marlin for hunting loads.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    IMO something that shoots slower will probably never copper foul anyways. I cleaned my 336 chambered in 35Rem the other day with copper removing solvent...no copper fowling what so ever. I’ve cleaned this gun many times after several j words pass through it and have never had copper fowling. Same goes for my my 22 WMR. It seems that all the guns I own that shoot j words under 2350 FPS don’t copper fowl.

    I’m sure there is always an exception like an extremely ruff bore.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 07-07-2020 at 07:36 PM.

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Well I finally got back to this project. Good news and bad(ish) news.

    My Lee mold drops at .382" so I can size it to .379 with little effort. The Lyman drops at .377, just a bit small for this particular barrel (I kind of expected this, shame because boolits fall from the mold with a shake of the hand). The group buy mold is plenty large, but it requires a gas check.

    The real bad news is my box of new WW brass was used as a rodent urinal during the year I was taking care of Mom. At least some of it is still useable, but I will be ordering some new un-whizzed on brass from Starline.

    Since my .379" boolits fit the WW brass, I am thinking I will be fine with the shorter version, sound right?

    Still don't like the buckhorn sights, but I can see them with reading glasses. Tried mounting a scope, but that will wait. This is going to be a range toy only, unless my hip really gets to feeling a lot better.

    Since it is no longer NIB, it will get a trigger job.

    Robert

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check