7.62X25 Tokarev Seating/Crimping Issues

[Hanzy4200]

I am loading Lyman 75 gr RN bullets (#311-252) sized to .311 with once fired Starline brass. Essentially what is happening is the bullets are being seated, and slightly deformed by the die, before the bullet seater is even contacting them. It is basically crimping the bullets. Likewise, I am unable to achieve a decent crimp, which is resulting in chambering issues. I did notice that my Starline brass is significantly shorter than my factory once fired PPU brass, which my be effecting this issue.

At this point, my thinking is to seat the bullets without touching the crimp, them following up with a factory crimp die. Am I on the right track? Just wanted to get feedback before buying a crimp die. Thanks guys.

[Outpost75]

Are you flaring the case mouths do that the bullet base may be started into the case without shaving lead?

Are you also lightly chamfering the inside of the case mouth?

What dies are you using?

Agree that you should seat to depth and crimp in a separate operation.

[WRideout]

I use Lee dies with the 100 gr Lee boolit for my Tokarev. I had no end of trouble chambering until I backed off the crimp enough. Using the standard seat/crimp die, too much will cause a bulge in the neck. Now I "plunk" test each round before it goes in the finished box. You may be able to get yours to work by just playing with the crimp adjustment, while keeping the OAL the same. At times I have had to run loaded rounds through the sizer die again, to iron out the neck bulge; I just hate to hammer apart ammo.

Wayne

[gpidaho]

The cast bullets I load in my Romanian Tok are the Lee TL314-90-SWC and the Lee 311-93-1R these are powder coated and sized .312. As I powder coat bullets the cases are flared a bit more than usual, about .008 to avoid any chance of scraping the coating. I seat the bullet and crimp if needed in a second step, usually just enough to remove the flare. For auto loading cartridges I prefer to use neck tension instead of crimp and I use the Noe expanders that can be purchased in .001 increments and save crimping for heavy recoiling revolver rounds. My crimp die for the Tok is the Lee factory crimp die set very lightly. Gp

[44Blam]

Loading for the Tok is very tricky. I generally keep the barrel by the bench and plunk each one before putting it in the box.

I size to .311. When I run it through the lee factory crimp die, it does size it down very slightly. My boolit is a accurate 31-085HG with no lube grove. I gas check it and powder coat it. My favorite load uses W296 powder - it has a massive muzzle flash and sends that pill around 1500 fps.

[Hanzy4200]

I am using Lee dies, which were all I knew of other than the high end options. In retrospect, I should have maybe just go the RCBS .30 Mauser dies. I do bell the case enough. I may have belled a tad more than I should have, this crossed my mind. This brass is all on it's second loading, and I didn't encounter this issue, at least this bad, the first time. I was running all of them through a M57. Now I am loading primarily for the VZ52. I have used powder coated as well as lubrisized pills.

[onelight]

The factory crimp die for that cartridge is the collet style crimp die you should be able to adjust it to give you the amount of crimp you need unless your bullets are oversized to the point that they are to big for the die.
Have you tried backing the crimp adjustment way out so it gives no crimp run a round into the die and see if the dimensions have changed on the neck and or bullet if all is good work the crimp adjustment down a little at a time checking the cartridge between each adjustment and see if you can arrive at the crimp you want.
If your bullet od is to large for proper fit in the collet you may have to modify the collet for your oversized bullets.

[Outpost75]

You also want to cast chamber and measure neck diameter compared to your cartridges. Fairly common for TOKs to have tight neck which precludes loading a bullet large enough to match barrel groove diameter and have adequate neck release clearance to safely function with a cast bullet larger than about .309".

[onelight]

Good point Outpost75 !

[Outpost75]

Good point Outpost75 !

If you have a pistol with this condition, you can fix it by running a .30 M1 Carbine reamer in just enough to clean up the neck diameter. On my 1953 Polish pistol I lengthened the neck just a wee bit to clean up a rough throat having circumferential tool marks and enabling it to use .30 Mauser ammo also.

[Hanzy4200]

If you have a pistol with this condition, you can fix it by running a .30 M1 Carbine reamer in just enough to clean up the neck diameter. On my 1953 Polish pistol I lengthened the neck just a wee bit to clean up a rough throat having circumferential tool marks and enabling it to use .30 Mauser ammo also.

Don't have a $125 .30 Carbine reamer lying around. Properly loaded ammo seems to run fine, it's getting it loaded properly that is the underlying issue. Has anyone else noticed Starline brass being so short? Is it possible I made a mistake re-sizing the brass that is causing this?

[Outpost75]

Don't have a $125 .30 Carbine reamer lying around. Properly loaded ammo seems to run fine, it's getting it loaded properly that is the underlying issue. Has anyone else noticed Starline brass being so short? Is it possible I made a mistake re-sizing the brass that is causing this?

Renting a reamer is affordable. 7.62x25 brass IS shorter than .30 Mauser. Not the same critter. My Starline brass is no different from PPU in terms of length.

[WRideout]

Short brass is not a problem for me. Long brass, even a couple of thousandths, is a problem. Or over crimping.

Wayne

[Hanzy4200]

Renting a reamer is affordable. 7.62x25 brass IS shorter than .30 Mauser. Not the same critter. My Starline brass is no different from PPU in terms of length.

Were do you rent a reamer? I am aware that Mauser brass is shorter, but I do not have Mauser brass. I have Starline Tokarev brass.

[Outpost75]

Tokarev brass is about .03 shorter than Mauser.

You can rent chamber reamers from https://4drentals.com