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Thread: Black Powder Bottleneck loading

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    Black Powder Bottleneck loading

    What do you do when the bullet base is so far in the case a over powder wad is in the large dia of the case. Case will not seat in chamber if bullet is seated out farther. 40-70 Sharps Bottleneck 2.25. Buy a mold for a tapered bullet?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    rancher1913's Avatar
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    research compressing black powder, make a drop tube and away you go. the 45-70 was designed for 70 grains of powder, are you trying to go more than that. and why an overpowder wad, does your chosen boolit not have enough lube groves.
    if you are ever being chased by a taxidermist, don't play dead

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    No you don't want the wad below the neck in a BN case.
    What bullet are you trying to use?
    How long is the bullet?
    What diameter is the bore riding portion of the bullet?
    When you try to seat the round and it won't chamber, where did the lands mark the bullet ogive?


    There could be a couple things causing this.
    The bore riding portion of the bullet is to large for the bore. Insert the bullet only into the muzzle to see it it will fit without undo pressure. If it don't the bore riding portion is too large in diameter.
    Compressing the powder with the bullet when seating it in the case. This will expand the bore riding portion of the bullet.
    The bullet to large in diameter and it's expanding the case neck.
    Forming cases from the .45-70 that has thick neck walls from reducing then to the .40 caliber.

    Do this.
    Take your bullet only, not loaded in a case, and push it till it engages the throat and just lightly tap the bullet base with a dowel or short rod so the lands make a mark. The mark should be on the first driving band and not on the ogive. It the marks are on the ogive get a proper mould for your rifle.
    There are moulds that have one or more driving bands reduced so you can seat it farther out of the case.
    Better yet, try a paper patch and patch it to bore diameter. This will solve the problem and also you won't be mining lead out of the bore.

    Here is a selection of GG bullets with reduced front driving bands. https://www.buffaloarms.com/bullet-m...?limit=36&p=10

    You can call them and tell them what your using and what the twist of your rifling is and ask for the proper length bullet will work in your rifle. The shoot and know what works. Moulds out of stock usually when you order one out of stock you will have in in short order.

    Kurt

  4. #4
    Boolit Bub
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    Lands are engraving first ring of bullet. I can only leave most of top driving out of case and still chamber. Grease grooves on bullet measure .500 long and that is also length of the neck. RCBS mold about 350 grains. I have never tried PP but want to. This might be a good rifle for it. Will be a hunting rifle.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Drop a bullet nose first into the muzzle of your rifle and see if the driving band will stop it or not.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    There are a couple of those .40 bn's one is the 2.25 they use a .45-90 case necked down and the other is the one with a shorter neck 2.1 that is a necked down .45-70 case. If I remember right I think the neck of the 2.25 is around .4 or .445" that would make the .500" shank long unless you had a bunch of free bore.
    You might try the Saeco 645 mould. I once had a roller in the .40 BN and that was the mould I used for it. Maybe someone has that mould and they can give you the length from the base to the top driving band.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    The BACO 395 gr creedmoor has tapered bands and a shorter shank.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  8. #8
    Boolit Bub
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    .400 Bore and .408 groove. If I want to try pp to seat it out farther I would need to start with a .390 bare bullet and patch up to .400 dia or just under, correct. P
    atching to .408 would gain me nothing.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by beshears View Post
    Lands are engraving first ring of bullet. I can only leave most of top driving out of case and still chamber. Grease grooves on bullet measure .500 long and that is also length of the neck. RCBS mold about 350 grains. I have never tried PP but want to. This might be a good rifle for it. Will be a hunting rifle.
    beshears, are you using a RCBS 40-350-SP-CSA mold? What's the case length? What brand and granulation of powder are you using? Also, type of brass (maker of the 40-70 Sharp BN case).

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    .395 bullet patched with 7 or 8 lb paper would be about right.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  11. #11
    Boolit Bub
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    RCBS 40-350 mold, Goex 2f, case length 2.25 made from Starline 45-90. Trimed, annealed ,formed and final trim, measure 2.255

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by beshears View Post
    RCBS 40-350 mold, Goex 2f, case length 2.25 made from Starline 45-90. Trimed, annealed ,formed and final trim, measure 2.255
    Bingo and Deja Vu. The bore riding section of that bullet is too large for Shilohs. Get a mold from Accurate that has a nose of .404-406. For PPB get one with the Dual Diameter design as the chambers size at the neck is pretty large and hard to deal with unless you do.

    Been there done that.

  13. #13
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    Yup, you need a new boolit. If you haven't done a pound cast you should.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    I wonder if RCBS designed that bullet for the Farmingdale rifle having freebore?

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    A saeco 640 works like a champ on a Shiloh 40-70 BN. Cases were formed from Starline 45-90. It hammers hogs and deer.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpsguy View Post
    A saeco 640 works like a champ on a Shiloh 40-70 BN. Cases were formed from Starline 45-90. It hammers hogs and deer.
    I've been using stretched 45-70 for many years and wondering what the neck thickness in on yours after forming from 45-90.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    I don't know the neck thickness, as the rifle actually belongs to a friend of mine. He bought it at the Tulsa gunshow with no dies and no brass, and brought it by my place looking for help getting it shooting. I called Kirk Bryan at Shiloh, and he had an extra set of RCBS dies which he sent, and I had a Saeco 640 left over from my silhouette competition days. I simply took some Starline 45-90 brass, trimmed it to length and ran it through the RCBS sizing die, then neck expanded the brass with the expander die that came with the RCBS die set. I sized the 640 bullet to .408 and it loaded in the case like a champ and shot lights out here at the house. My friend took it home and promptly hammered a couple of hogs with it, getting diagonal pass through penetration on one hog, and side to side pass through on a shoulder shot on the other, both from about 100 yards. The wound channel on both hogs was just larger than a nickel, which was a surprise given the small meplat on the 640. Both hogs only went about 10 yards after being hit.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check