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Thread: Breech seating the 308403 Pope bullet in a #1 30'06

  1. #1
    Boolit Master HARRYMPOPE's Avatar
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    Breech seating the 308403 Pope bullet in a #1 30'06

    I played around with the 308403 Pope on and off for more than a Dozen Years. I used it originally as it was designed ,finger seated in the case and delicately chambering and found it to be "about" a 2 minute of angle load in sporting rifles.
    Recently I got a fairly good gas check bullet shooting "200th year" Ruger #1 30-06. I figured I would give it another go. My results were similar so having recently acquired a little unimat lathe I decided to make myself a breech seater. It didn't come out too bad considering my rudimentary machinist skills. The first few range sessions I played with my favorite load of 8 to 9 grains unique and was averaging five shot groups right at an inch and a half for the last 20 groups at 100 yards. The good groups were very round but didn't want to go under an inch and there was not really an inclination that it was going to do so. I had a can of Hodgdon CFE pistol in the truck and I tried some on the same setting for Unique . the velocity was definitely higher but I didn't have my chronograph to check. Needless to say the shots were all over the place.
    So this morning I brought out the chronograph and backed it down to a velocity 1280 ft per second(10.5g) .I then shot five consecutive 5 shot groups that had a lot of clustering that averaged Just a Touch over an 1-1/8" with a couple of shots that were Heartbreakers that would have made a couple group's 5/8 of an inch.
    I have to say I'm getting happy with this breech seating 30-06 deal .Remember this is an unmodified Ruger #1 so it's nothing special ,the triggers rather heavy compared to my target rifles.

    the groups circled in pink are the cfe groups.

    Attachment 263497Attachment 263498
    Attachment 263499
    Attachment 263500
    Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for sharing this. I have thought about trying the same thing with the Henry Single Shot in 30/30. I know it is not the same type of action, but it is a very accurate rifle, and this is one of those things that make you wonder, and some times that itch has to be scratched. I have a very nice Remington Rolling block on the way, should arrive tomorrow, that would also be a good candidate for that, i had already thought about doing this with it. I have gotten some new books on Single shot rifles and shooting, and left to my own inclinations it is untelling what i will get into.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    That bullet is probably my favorite. Every rifle I try it in seems to shoot it as good or better than anything else, at the plain base velocities of course. What dia. is your base band? Mine comes out at .315 or a bit smaller, which I size to .314, then tumble lube with two coats of BLL.

    I don't have a single shot to try the breech seating, but my assembled cartridges are fairly durable after I got my loading method worked out. Most cases are neck sized, then expanded with a NOE style expander plug, .309 x .315 , that expands the mouth the depth of the bullets base band. I made a couple expander plugs, using the one that gives me the best fit with the different brass I'm using.

    In a Krag or 03 , 9-10 grs. of Unique, Herco, 800x, shoot great. Cheap and pleasant to shoot .

  4. #4
    Boolit Master HARRYMPOPE's Avatar
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    Attachment 263505
    I shoot them as cast rolled in Alox 606 in the front of that base band is about .314.
    Here's this morning shooting the above load CFE and then I had some I sized the base band to .310 and they did not group at all.
    Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries

  5. #5
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    I've got a Ballard Pope 3 barrel set, and one of the 3 barrels is a muzzle loader in .28 Pope Special. A .25-35 case opened up to .28 and a steeper shoulder. I've used it rarely as a ML as designed, and more often breech seated the bullets, which makes it extremely accurate.
    I build breech seating tools for some of my Ballard rifles and am fairly new to this method of shooting. But the last 5 years I've played with breech loading, and found all the guns I tried it in shot much more accurate than they did with fixed loads. They do require more powder since the case has more volume without a bullet seated in the neck.
    This the tool I built for use with Ballard rifles.


  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Nice tool, I have a 70's vintage Hurst shifter handle threaded on one of mine (old gearhead) . Any 4227 in the house? Maybe Boolit base .060" forward of case neck to land forward of throat? Flaring neck of formed case to center and seal chamber?

  7. #7
    Boolit Master HARRYMPOPE's Avatar
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    I think I saw you use that on a YouTube video on one of your Ballard's.

    I'm probably going to make a mechanical breech seater so I can try some different type of bullets in mine.I'm just waiting for my Milling attachment to show up for my mini lathe.

    This #1 is a fairly good one because I've got quite a few sub moa groups with gas check cast bullets with fixed ammo.but the breech seat stuff is catching up.

    I attached a very lucky 5 shot group I shot this morning with A 311299 hollow point and 16 grain of 2400 at hundred yards.

    I'm having Tom and accurate molds make me a copy of the Pope bullet with a couple dimensional changes to make it a little longer. It will be complete success or complete failure !!

    Attachment 263511
    Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I need a better rifle and at least a swanky range box like yours.
    My break open rifle with a plastic butt and wood fore-end shoots the pope bullet quite well.

    If I get the brass length just right and a chamfer to hold the bullet just so.

    Breachseating with a back end of a pencil works better thou if I forget my push seater.

    I really need a swanky range box and tools with a thrower.
    Or at least some ebony handled dippers and silver plated containers in a green felt lined walnut box.

    A small plastic lolly container and dippers made with soldered old shells does not seem appropriate.
    Especially if you throw them in a shopping bag.

    Just an observation.

    If the bullet fits and seals the base.............
    Last edited by barrabruce; 06-13-2020 at 11:23 PM.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    A stepped bullet design with the base band sealing the bore is the best design for breech seating, and also easiest to seat with too. Ideal made a couple stepped designs for this purpose in .38 and .32 calibers. I've got the larger for my .38-55 rifles, and in my Schoyen Ballard it will shoot .75"-1" groups at 100 yds. It's a pretty heavy bullet though at around 310 grs. The Schoyen has a tighter twist rate than what original Marlin Ballard rifling was, so it likes a heavy bullet.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master HARRYMPOPE's Avatar
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    yup its a stepped design as you know. I have a 205g(ish) version of it in the way next week.
    I played with different breech seating depth this am but wind was so bad I stopped as I was just wasting components.In the limited test I didn't see a difference .
    i have an original ideal push seater i was gonna use but it's short and with the offset doesn't work under a scope very well.
    here it is with a 32-40 case.

    Attachment 263577

    Attachment 263578
    Last edited by HARRYMPOPE; 06-14-2020 at 03:39 PM.
    Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries

  11. #11
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    I've got a couple Ideal push seaters, plus various others made by who knows who? I've never been a huge fan of push seaters to use, although I love all old tools and buy any I find affordable enough. The mechanical seaters make the job so much easier, and also less tiring when I spend a day shooting at the range.
    I love old shooting boxes, and shooter's kits! The rifles, and kits that have been with them for numerous decades make me weak in the knees! If I could afford it, every old single shot I own would have a complete shooter's kit and a case for the rifle too! They just really get my blood going!

  12. #12
    Boolit Master HARRYMPOPE's Avatar
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    I prefer mechanical seaters as well but with the baseband type bullet the push works just fine. With the Pope bullet I'm shooting about a hundred shots at a session and it it's working just fine.it wouldn't be able to push other designs into the throat very well at all.
    Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries

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