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Thread: Alox 350 has been Discontinued

  1. #41
    Boolit Master

    NuJudge's Avatar
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    Anxiously awaiting results the the proposed replacements. From what I have read, 350 was not used by NRA because its melting point was too low, and 2138F was used because its melting point was higher. So long as the the other properties are similar to 350 and 2138F, the new replacements may be just fine.

  2. #42
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    Hi, sorry I'm a little bit slow on this. I did finally get the sample. I'll need to make small batches of the different lubed and test them all in rifles and pistols.
    We're coming up on regular gun deer season here in Arkansas. Right now I'm sitting in a stand hoping a hog wanders in.
    I should be home in a couple of days and can start with the testing.

  3. #43
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    This little guy was on my camera last night.
    I'm hoping to stay up late and wait him out

  4. #44
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Cosmoline stays softer IMO, Alox with drying time/heat bakes to a finish similar to enamel. Sticks very well to almost anthing wet. Once dried very little will stick to it including hot lead.

    I've been using thinned alox (BLL) with a twist of 0000 steel wool on my mold sprue plates and holes.

    Really cuts down how often I get a piece of lead stuck on a sprue hole. Nothing sticks.

    But don't take my word for it, test it yourself.
    I truly believe we need to get back to basics.

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  5. #45
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lar45 View Post
    Well, it seems like they are still running a skeleton crew in some areas due to Covid concerns...

    I did just barely get the sample in a couple of days ago.
    This new Alox seems to be very similar, but with a slightly higher melt point.
    I use Alox 350 in 4 of my lubes. So I will have to make 4 small batches and then lube boolits and shoot them to see how they perform next to the original recipe.

    I still have enough Alox 350 to last maybe 4 months.
    I will give you guys an update as the testing progresses.
    Have time for an update? What is the current replacement being used in your 50/50. Thank you.

  6. #46
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanJames170 View Post
    So Alox was a sort of cosmoline?
    Calcium soap. https://www.nyelubricants.com/choosi...ckening-system

    Greases prepared from calcium soaps have improved water resistance over the lithium greases and very good shear stability. Calcium soap greases do not have good thermal resistance (dropping points range from 135-145°C) and are typically only used in applications that operate up to 110°C.

    Improved water resistance over the lithium greases, with good shear stability, bearings of water pumps, wheel bearings, and agricultural vehicles.

    Calcium sulfonate greases exhibit greater shear stability than lithium complex greases. And that means they will hold up under pressure, for longer, than lithium greases. Lithium complex and calcium sulfonate greases both have the advantage of being compatible with both each other and many types of other common greases.

    https://www.machinerylubrication.com...ate-thickeners

    Calcium sulfonate thickeners have been around for almost 50 years. This particular type of grease has inherent extreme pressure (EP) properties that stand out from the rest. These properties, combined with the fact that it can be formulated for use in H-1 (food-grade) applications, make it an attractive alternative to other greases. Calcium sulfonate greases are made by converting a fluid detergent that contains amorphous calcium carbonate to a grease containing calcite particles. Because of the calcite particles’ lubricating properties, performance additives containing sulfur, phosphorous or zinc may not be needed. This is why some calcium sulfonate-based greases are attractive to the food industry.

    Although calcium sulfonate greases have desirable properties, an inhibiting factor is the cost. Calcite particles are the business end of making the product work, but reaching that point can be expensive. In addition, calcium sulfonate supply is limited, while costs are escalating.

    Plants are operating at capacity, and grease is not the only bidder. Calcium sulfonates are used in engine oil, metalworking, automatic transmission fluid, industrial and automotive gear oil additives as well as other applications. To complicate the situation, let’s compare the treat rates.

    Heavy-duty diesel applications require an approximate treat level of five percent. In grease applications, the treat levels spike to between 20 and 50 percent. That’s a big difference and a major reason for the high cost.

    Another downside is their performance with respect to pumpability and water sprayoff. Pumpability is a concern that can be alleviated through proper base oil selection. In the ASTM D4049 sprayoff test, a thin layer of grease is placed on a panel and sprayed with water. After the test is completed, the percent of grease lost is calculated. Many calcium sulfonate greases typically show significant sprayoff.
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  7. #47
    Boolit Master

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    Long live powder coating

  8. #48
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    How did the testing go? Were the suggested replacement products usable?

  9. #49
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    New Alox?

    I sent an email, asking what the replacement is. No Reply. Must be a "Trade Secret "

  10. #50
    Boolit Bub
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    Old thread, but any updates on the product number or performance?
    little willie, NRA Benefactor Member

  11. #51
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by little willie View Post
    Old thread, but any updates on the product number or performance?
    I read all three pages and No Update ...
    Guess I'll stay with the Lithium - Beeswax lube I been using !
    Gary
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    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  12. #52
    Boolit Master

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    I've got enough Alox 350 to take me thru to the "END", but I know there are others that like the NRA lube and would like to have a replacement. I don't know what that might be but surely the original purpose for Alox 350 still exists and someone will develop something. Whether it will work as a component of bullet lube will be unknown until tested.
    John
    W.TN

  13. #53
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I read about the lubes used by the old time shooters in the Schuetzen style. Does anybody know where I can get steam cylinder oil, ozocerite, or Acheson’s graphite? It looks like every time we come up with a good lube formula, within just 50-75 years some so and so discontinues a key ingredient!

    Froggie
    Last edited by Green Frog; 02-03-2022 at 05:03 PM. Reason: correct spelling
    "It aint easy being green!"

  14. #54
    Boolit Master
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    Steam cylinder oil source.

    https://rrtools.com/product/steam-cy...3%20%3E%203514

    Ozocerite source.

    https://www.parchem.com/chemical-sup...e--052524.aspx

    You are probably going to need to substitute for Acheson's Graphite.
    scrolling well down in the topic will give you some ideas to explore.

    http://www.lasc.us/LubeIngredients.htm

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Dusty Bannister; 02-03-2022 at 06:14 PM.

  15. #55
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Actually I started tracking down all of that stuff sometime back in the mid-nineties. My post was meant to be tongue in cheek, and I guess I should have used more smilies!

    The fact is, the state of lubes is always in flux (not the stuff to clean lead but change) and we just have to go with it. I do wish I had had the opportunity to try Aldo Leopold’s lube in the (Eighteen) Nineties. BTW, I sometimes used odd scraps of leftover lube for… FLUX!

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  16. #56
    Boolit Master Wolfdog91's Avatar
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  17. #57
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Don't overlook the simple blend of Lithium Grease and Beeswax for a very good lube .
    1 part Lithium Grease ( Lucas Red-N-Tacky)
    3 parts beeswax
    If the lube is too soft for you add a little Gulf Paraffin Wax to harden .
    When the old alox 2138F was discontinued , lube maker Garth Choate told me to try his Lithium - Beeswax lube as he thought it better than the new formula alox & beeswax they had to use .
    I've never had a leading problem with it in handguns and 30-30 rifle under 2000 fps but I don't push them too hard .
    Garth gave me the recipe , he said they haven't made lube in years .
    He designed and built a machine for moulding hollow and solid sticks back then .
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  18. #58
    Boolit Master
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    I've been using a version of Glen Fryxell's Moly-Graph grease and beeswax. I think he said 50/50 which I found way to soft. I use 2 parts beeswax to 1 part Moly-Graph which flows at room temp without heat.
    Mal

    Mal Paso means Bad Pass, just so you know.

  19. #59
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    What’s the latest word on the alox discontinuation and finding a substitute?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check