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Thread: Calibrate Scales

  1. #61
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    You can get a set of gram check weights from China for about $10 that includes all the little pieces. For my Dasher a 32.6 grain load is 2.112 grams or 2 grams equal 30.85 grains.

  2. #62
    Boolit Buddy Texas Gun's Avatar
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    The beam scale will be right if you zero it correctly I do not trust Electric scales I have an RCBS I can check the load three times same load gives me three different weights granted they’re not off by much but it’s still three different weights

  3. #63
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    Maybe I missed this in this thread, but how does one correct for misreading balance beams or electronic scale? For instance, if I set my beam weights to 20grs and my beam reads higher or lower than the 0 line with a 20gr check weight, what would one do to compensate. Add some tape to the bottom of the beam tray to increase its weight if low? What about of it's heavier? I would think electronic scales would be totally different story
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubetcha View Post
    Maybe I missed this in this thread, but how does one correct for misreading balance beams or electronic scale? For instance, if I set my beam weights to 20grs and my beam reads higher or lower than the 0 line with a 20gr check weight, what would one do to compensate. Add some tape to the bottom of the beam tray to increase its weight if low? What about of it's heavier? I would think electronic scales would be totally different story
    This will depend on which beam scale you have. Many have a screw or disk near the left end that will allow you to raise or lower the left end until pointer points at -0-. If this doesn't do it, some like the old Redding, C-H, Pacific, etc have two nuts on the right end of the beam that can be moved to the right or left to affect the balance. If you do this make sure that the base is level before you start. Keep the nuts tight against each other so the gremlins don't move them while you aren't looking. Others, like RCBS, have lead shot in the bottom of the pan. You can take the pan apart and add or remove shot until it is in balance. Again, make sure the base is level when you do this.

    Lee scales do not have the ability to adjust the height of the left end of the scale. I made a sub-base for it. The sub-base has a bubble level on it so I can start out with the scale level. Then put the appropriate check weights in the pan, and turn the wheel in the right end of the beam until the scale reads -0-.

    For my digital scale I recorded what the scale read for 0, 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 25, 50, 70, and 100 grains and made a table showing what needed to be added or subtracted from what the scale said to get the actual weight.
    Some times it's the pot,
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  5. #65
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    A lot of beam scales have the basic weights to get close under the scale pan holder. Small lead shot thats removed or added as needed. A screw foot adjusts up and down for final zero.

    Digitals can get interesting at times. Most once you go thru the calibration process thats it. You can use check weights to set the scales to zero at that exact weight. Here you run to zero then read the plus or minus it off.

    The biggest help for most scales isnt for the scales but the bench it sits on. Its a simple little leveling plate. Made of a size the scales and trickler fit on with 3 screws. sit this on the bench then with a good level adjust screws to where it is level in both planes X and Y. This gets the scales sitting right and solid. I make mie from 3/8"-1/2" thick aluminum. wood will work but you need to check it often do to warpping with moisture changing.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.F.Plinker View Post
    This will depend on which beam scale you have. Many have a screw or disk near the left end that will allow you to raise or lower the left end until pointer points at -0-. If this doesn't do it, some like the old Redding, C-H, Pacific, etc have two nuts on the right end of the beam that can be moved to the right or left to affect the balance. If you do this make sure that the base is level before you start. Keep the nuts tight against each other so the gremlins don't move them while you aren't looking. Others, like RCBS, have lead shot in the bottom of the pan. You can take the pan apart and add or remove shot until it is in balance. Again, make sure the base is level when you do this.

    Lee scales do not have the ability to adjust the height of the left end of the scale. I made a sub-base for it. The sub-base has a bubble level on it so I can start out with the scale level. Then put the appropriate check weights in the pan, and turn the wheel in the right end of the beam until the scale reads -0-.

    For my digital scale I recorded what the scale read for 0, 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 25, 50, 70, and 100 grains and made a table showing what needed to be added or subtracted from what the scale said to get the actual weight.
    I have a RCBS 505 and now that you mention it, the pan tray does have a screw on the bottom and rattles when moved. Forgot all about that. Thanks!
    I also use a Hornady electronic scale. I use this one more due to its more convenient to use. The RCBS is elevated to eye height to see the 0 line better.
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  7. #67
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Most beam balances that we use aren't adjustable for linearity. It's baked in at the factory. The user can affect it by adjusting the weights of the poises, but you'll probably make matters worse rather than better. One thing you might look at is whether the large poise has any accumulation of dust on it. If you find that the 100 grain check weight requires that you add a few kernels of powder to the pan to get the pointer to come to the mark, this is a possible cause.

    Another factor can be the sharpness of the knife-edges on which the beam rests. They must be clean and sharp, and the anvils on which they rest must be clean, or you'll get some linearity error, and it won't be consistent across the entire measuring range.
    Last edited by uscra112; 12-16-2020 at 01:19 PM.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeanoBeanCounter View Post
    I have two scales. One electronic and one balance beam. At lower weights such as for handgun loads they both show about the same weight. At higher loads such as for rifle loads they both are way different. The balance beam says 57 grains and the electronic says 64.8 grains. I use the electronic for rifle loads for safety. The question is, is there a way to determine which is right? Is there a weight kit to check them with (without breaking the bank)? Thoughts, suggestions, comments, ect. would be of great help.
    Thanks
    Dean
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012866166 though two sets an another poster suggests makes sense to me. I looked at these on Amazon, they start at $44 a set there. I have an Ohaus triple beam balance so I may check into making my own scale check weights. 1/10th grain is about 6.5milligrams, rounding roughly. Especially these days, I've got way more time than money.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubetcha View Post
    Maybe I missed this in this thread, but how does one correct for misreading balance beams or electronic scale? For instance, if I set my beam weights to 20grs and my beam reads higher or lower than the 0 line with a 20gr check weight, what would one do to compensate. Add some tape to the bottom of the beam tray to increase its weight if low? What about of it's heavier? I would think electronic scales would be totally different story
    There should be a screw that you can adjust that moves the balance point of the beam just slightly by moving a small weight. You will also want to do this in a room with still air. No fans, no AC, no heater running. Back when I was playing with one in high school, I built a Plexiglas scale cover to keep the dust and air currents of the one I had then.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrounge View Post
    I may check into making my own scale check weights. 1/10th grain is about 6.5milligrams, rounding roughly.
    Before I bought a set of check weights I made my own out of washers. A friend who worked in a hospital lab weighed them on one of their microgram scales and wrote the weights on the bag they were in. I converted to grains (1 gram = 15.43 grains) and inscribed that weight on each washer with an electric engraver. Another option might be to have your local pharmacy weigh them using their scale. You could use lengths of wire for the very small weights.
    Some times it's the pot,
    Some times it's the pan,
    It might even be the skillet,
    But, most of the time, it's the cook.

  11. #71
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    I should mention that electronic scales do have to be calibrated for linearity, or they can be wildly off. e.g. my PACT II came with two check weights, and the manual lays down a procedure using one, then the other, then both together that does this calibration. This must be performed pretty regularly, because the low$$ sensors they use can drift over time.
    Cognitive Dissident

  12. #72
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    I had an electronic e scale that came with weights to calibrate. I checked my two beam scales with these and both ran .1 grain light so I left well enough alone. The e scale no longer lives here as the darn thing wouldn't hold calibration. Good for weighing bullets though.
    Can't beat a beam scale. I started out with an old Forester that traveled all over the world with me in the Army and was still good when I let #2 son have it when he started loading./beagle
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  13. #73
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    I've got the Lyman set. Have been looking at the RCBS larger set. "Out of Stock" most places I usually order from.

    I've got 3 RCBS beam balance scales. This thread is prompting me to check out all three. Then I want to go the paper clip route for some small powder charges. Right now it is 3.5 grains of Bullseye for 9mm, 135 grain pc boolit. There isn't much variation with the Dillon measure but I still like to check a charge every so many throws.
    John
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  14. #74
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    Just got this set coming.



    I have had the BPI digital battery thing for a year but I still trust good,old beam scales,got a few. A Pacific,Dillon,Lyman and RCBS at least.

    Gonna check them all now.

  15. #75
    Boolit Master 44magLeo's Avatar
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    I have a small check weight set, it has the .5 gr, 1 gr, 2 2 gr. 5 gr, wires with 2 ten gr and a 20 gr weights.
    I have an older Lyman 1000 scale and the Lee scale. I have two digital scales, One has a small capacity but reads to .01 grs. The other is about worthless for any very precise. Neither one cost me much so I can't expect much. The small capacity one cost more and is fairly consistent. I still trust either of the beam scales over the digital scales.
    I did use the check weights to check all the scales. All were right on at the weights in the set. I used the weights and made heavier weights.
    I could total up to 50 grs with the check weights, I used these to set a scale then dumped them out and added bit of wire solder to the pan to get 50 grs. I then used a spoon and melted these into a 50 gr weight. I did the same to make more weights at 100 and 200 grs.
    I now have two of each size. This lets me check the scales for zero out to 750 grs. This can tell me how accurate the scale readings are compared to actual weights.
    Ok, granted this weights might not be labrotory precise but close enough for anything I do.
    The Lee was very acurate out to it's 100 gr ca[pacity. Less than .5 grs off. The lyman the higher the weight the more off kit was. At 100 grs it was .5 off and at 750 it was off by 7 grs. These reading were low radings, so they would be ok to use. This .5 grs is .005% close enough. The 7 at 750 is .009%, still close enough. If anyone can see a .009% charge weight variation on the target they are either very good opr have a good amagination.
    I seldom weigh charges that heavy but at ranges I weigh bullets they are fine. The readings were very consistent. I could get the weight, lift off the pan, set it back on and the readings were the same. So even if the exact weight was of a bit, they were always the same weight.
    I dicided I can trust my beam scales. The digital was just as accurate but you had to calibrate it according to the instruction every few readings or it would drift off.
    Leo

  16. #76
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    We can't "calibrate" balance beam scales. The calibration of a balance scale is physically built into the beam itself and it can't rightly be tweaked (aka, calibrated) by the user. That's okay because ALL of our balance scale makers do a very good job. I've never found one to be off more than 0.1 grain anywhere along the beam and, when weighing charges of say 50 grains that's an accuracy of .002%; no one is going to blow themselves up because of such a tiny error.

    I still use my first beam scale bought in 1965. The beam had been rough balanced at the factory and I've never needed to change it. The original package included a 260.9 gr "extender" weight to make it get up from 500 to 1,000 grains. I've used it as a single point check but after all these years and thousands of charges it's never changed, not even a tenth. (Don't damage yours and keep it clean and yours will do as well.)

    What the instructions usually say a user must do is balance the beam, end to end, but that's a "once and done" task. We first do a rough zero of the beam with the hidden pan hanger weights or the locked nuts at the end of the beam and it won't change in normal use. After the rough balance is achieved, the precise zero is checked and adjusted with the jack screw at the left end of the scale body with the empty pan in place. That means there is no need to get the scale's body precisely level from left to right, the jack screw handles that. Thus, if a beam scale's body looks eyeball level and can be adjusted to zero, it is as level as we need. (That's not true for digitals tho!)

    Scale makers are more than happy to sell us a set of check weights. So, IF we have a wide range of check weights and are willing to spend the time, we can make a chart of beam error but it's an anal exercise in meaningless trivia and is more likely to introduce confusion than comfort.

    Proof: Recognise that our scale makers and loading manual makers aren't fools. If we actually needed to sweat beam scale body level AND if it helped to make charts to be sure our beams haven't shrunk between uses, they would insist we do all that agonising detail before weighting a charge. But, they don't. All they tell us to do is to see if the scale's platform has changed and, if it has, to re-zero the jack screw to put the body back into zero to the beam's pointer and weigh the powder.

  17. #77
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    Yep we only zero beam scales.

    But it's good to check for uniform readings,I like.

    Cheap digital BPI battery scale uses a 50 gram weight to calibrate. How do you trust it for half a gram, a few grains? Crazy.

  18. #78
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    Even with beam scales you can use the check weights to set a dead zero weight. IE use the weights to come up with 41.5 grns ( my 308 match load) set scales up and zero it. set them to 41.5 and place the weights in the pan now if its off the line slightly zero to the line. Your scales is now set and zeroed at exactly 41.5 grns or as close as your check weights.

    Most balance beams work not only on the adjustable weights but also on leverage. The better analytical are a true balance the weights on one side and the charge on the other. Setting the scales to the check weights is slightly more accurate than the scales graduations.

    I may at some point make a balance scale from scratch in the shop. A 18" beam for the sensitivity carbide bearing in place of the aggregates. Hardened or carbide knife edges on the beam. Roughly 12" tall with the zero indicator down near the base for better definition on the graduations. possibly water or light oil dampened. Im thinking with some work and trial and error I can get to .01 or .02 accuracy with it.

  19. #79
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    After reading this thread I decided it was time to inspect and clean my RCBS 5-0-5 scale and noticed it had Ohaus molded into the bottom. Not that it means much other than it is hopefully a quality scale.
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  20. #80
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    Ohaus is an old company. They have long been a maker of labratory scales and have made high grade powder scales for any reloading company who wanted to market good scales without having to make them; mine was made back in '65 when they supplied Lyman. That said, I believe every reloading balance scale on the market is as good and accurate as reloaders need. In fact, I wonder what any reloader with a scale accurate to +/- .00000001% would gain; I think it's nothing. Making powder scales accurate to +/- .1 grain was established because that was as tight as anyone needed; I believe it still is! ??

    Reloaders really don't gain anything with highly precise accuracy of a weight, what we do benefit from is precise repeatability so we can KNOW that a cartridge made today will be identical to others made six months ago ... that is, IF we are using exactly the same cases/bullets and powder/primer lots, which seldom actually happens.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check