How did they do that? And was Cordite ever available on the retail market?

[15meter]

I've dis-assembled these before, always curious how they got this in to the case.

Fed off spools of long strands and cut after starting in the case?

Majic?

Smoke and mirrors?




Just something to chew on over the weekend, probably been discussed here before but I'm too lazy to do a search.

[roadie]

With the .303, I've read that the cordite was cut to length, put in a straight case, and the case formed to final dimensions.

[303Guy]

With the .303, I've read that the cordite was cut to length, put in a straight case, and the case formed to final dimensions.

I believe so. Same with the compressed black powder pellet in the original loading.

[15meter]

Curious if that was the way it was done for all the loadings using Cordite, I understand it was used in in most of the African/Indian big game hunting cartridges of the late 1800's. The English double rifles I've seen have had the Cordite load they were regulated with stamped right on the rifle.

Kynoch would have loaded them the same way? I'm thinking the 450 Nitro Express and variants-- 450/400, 400/350. It would have been interesting to see the process.

And the second question from above, was Cordite available back in the day as the equivalent to our "canister" powders? Or was it available in "short cut" form for hand loading?

Seems like that would change burn rate a tad.

[1hole]

Cordite has always been made in long lengths and cut as needed to fit the case. Sadly, handloading ammo by individual British subjects wasn't and still isn't of concern to their government.

Legally, there's a world of difference between being a "subject" and being a "citizen." Arrogant progressive/socialistic/Democrats and their propaganda wing of "Controlled MSM (fake) News" have worked long and hard to put America's proud and hard working common citizens into a humbled and cowed down "subject to government" class.

[higgins]

The .303 Brit military rounds I pulled down had a card wad on top of the cordite that was smaller diameter than the case neck. I'm guessing it was placed on top of the cordite to hold it in place while the neck was formed, then the bullet seated and crimped.

I had some British manufactured WWII ammo that gave consistent hangfires so, being retired with too much time on my hands, I broke down the rounds and loaded the bullet and cordite in a commercial case with a new primer. All fired normally. The problem was the primers not the cordite. I remember seeing a TV documentary where they brought some artillery-sized cordite strands up from the bottom of the sea at Gallipoli, and after wiping the mud, crud, etc off of them and letting it dry a bit it would burn.

[Mytmousemalibu]

I know that old .303 Brit is common to find charged with Cordite, anyone know other cartridges that were loaded with it? I have some old 8mm Lebel, WWII vintage that I've been curious of. I also have a true WWI single 8mm Lebel with cupro-nickel bullet that I would love to pull down and see but its the only one I have and I don't have the heart to mess with it. Its survived a long time!

[Bazoo]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

[john.k]

Cordite wasnt the only smokeless powder available commercially in 1900.....every maker had their own brands and types.....the Euro military rounds were generally loaded with a a coarse diamond flake powder ,originally invented by the French in 1883,and called "Hotchkiss glass plate flake" powder ......because it was made by depositing sucessive layers of different nitrocellulose from solution onto glass plates ,peeled off and cut up into diamond shapes........The Germans had this process within a year of the French ,the French wernt amused ,and claimed Alfred Nobel had been a masterspy giving their top secret to the hated Boche......Nobel had to quickly exit France to avoid those calling for his blood.

[uscra112]

I recall seeing a photo in the Rifleman of .303 cartridges being loaded. The cordite was on a spool in another room, fed through a small hole with a guillotine over it. In case the stuff caught fire at the loading station I guess.

[15meter]

I recall seeing a photo in the Rifleman of .303 cartridges being loaded. The cordite was on a spool in another room, fed through a small hole with a guillotine over it. In case the stuff caught fire at the loading station I guess.

I can believe that, even as old as this cartridge is, the strands are still flexible enough to bend almost 90 degrees before breaking.

[Shiloh]

I know that old .303 Brit is common to find charged with Cordite, anyone know other cartridges that were loaded with it? I have some old 8mm Lebel, WWII vintage that I've been curious of. I also have a true WWI single 8mm Lebel with cupro-nickel bullet that I would love to pull down and see but its the only one I have and I don't have the heart to mess with it. Its survived a long time!

Millions of rounds of 8mm Lebel ammo was deep sixed near the end of WWI, or just after. Hurried wartime production, meant shortcuts were made on the propellant. Possibly not all the acid was rinsed from the manufacturing process.

Does it sound like powder if you shake it??

Shiloh

[Wolverine19D]

Really interesting stuff. I have heard multiple people saying the old cordite 303 produced many hangfires and have a couple hundred rounds laying around myself that was my uncles which produced hangfires for him back in the 70's-80's.

I always assumed it was the cordite that produced the hangfires but after reading the post above about re-loading it with fresh primers that makes me wonder why the primers had such problems with these 303 rounds when none of my other surplus ammo ever had such problems?

Is any ammo still made with cordite? And how does it compare with standard single based stick powders, and double based ball powders?

[15meter]

I haven't heard of it being available in my reloading career, was thumbing through Sharpe's book(1941 edition) yesterday. Don't remember seeing it referenced.

Think it's been gone a long time.

Swappin' lies with other old guy at the gun club about the old cordite loads there was always comments about it burning HOT. Barrel burner kind of stuff but I don't have any documentation to back up the gun club hot air.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Millions of rounds of 8mm Lebel ammo was deep sixed near the end of WWI, or just after. Hurried wartime production, meant shortcuts were made on the propellant. Possibly not all the acid was rinsed from the manufacturing process.

Does it sound like powder if you shake it??

Shiloh

I know I've shaken/listened and dont recall any discernable noise, ill have to check again!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I doubt if you'll find any Lebel ammo containing cordite, unless it was manufactured in England. The French's great contribution to firearms was the invention of smokeless powder, and Poudre B was their primary propellant.

[higgins]

Re: Post #13 above - The primers for some .303 military ammo may have not been quite up to snuff for long-term storage because of wartime production. Add to that questionable storage conditions in some of the (hot) countries like Egypt, Turkey, and Pakistan where .303 ammo was sent. When I popped the primers in the made-in-England cartridges mentioned above before scrapping they either sounded very weak or some actually made a fizzing sound rather than a pop.

Some of the most consistently hangfire .303 ammo on the market several years ago was Pakistani from the 1960s (headstamped POF and the year). Some lots fired normally, some didn't. Some lots had the occasional hangfire. I got four boxes (three still sealed) of Pakistani ammo that someone left on the bench at the range because a few of them didn't fire and were put back in the open box. They had been snapped in a rifle with a badly off-center firing pin that hit the edge of the primer. I happened to have my No.4 with me and tried them and all fired normally - not even a hangfire. I'll take 128 rounds of free ammo any time.

[303Guy]

I haven't heard of it being available in my reloading career, was thumbing through Sharpe's book(1941 edition) yesterday. Don't remember seeing it referenced.

Think it's been gone a long time.

Swappin' lies with other old guy at the gun club about the old cordite loads there was always comments about it burning HOT. Barrel burner kind of stuff but I don't have any documentation to back up the gun club hot air.

My understanding is that cordite did indeed burn hot. I have a few barrels that would concede to that. The Brits found that after changing to the then new cordite, the Medford rifling then in use would erode away too quickly so that is why the Enfield rifling was adopted. They also added the bitumen soaked card wad under the bullet to reduce bore erosion.

I once fired about 500 rounds of cordite machine gun rounds through my new 303 barrel. The wear in the throat region was visible! It did nothing to the accuracy but I could feel it when cleaning the bore. It was smoother in the first bit.

[Mytmousemalibu]

I doubt if you'll find any Lebel ammo containing cordite, unless it was manufactured in England. The French's great contribution to firearms was the invention of smokeless powder, and Poudre B was their primary propellant.

I do recall the type of powder Poudré B being used in conjunction with the Ballé D spitzer bullet. Having never seen Poudré B, I wasn't sure if its a cordite-like propellant or in some other form factor. All the 8mm Lebel I have is the Ballé D type, all but one is WWII production and one WWI era, dated 1917 with the cupro nickel jacket. I believe all are of franco origin.

I need to get my hands on some old cordite charged .303 I guess, I'd like to see some and burn a round or two in my ROF Maltby No:4 Mk1.

[AggieEE]

There was an article in The Rifleman about cordite, the picture referenced above was there, and the first cordite has 10% nitroglycerine and 5% petroleum jelly. When they found out about the bore erosion they almost reversed the percentages of nitro and petroleum jelly.