WidenersMidSouth Shooters SupplyRotoMetals2ADvertise here
RepackboxTitan ReloadingInline FabricationLee Precision

Donate Now Goal amount for this year: 6000 USD, Received: 2125 USD (35%)
Our Annual server fund drive is going on now! This donation drive helps fund Cast Boolits for an entire year, and helps support our 2nd amendment rights! You can donate by Paypal by clicking the DONATE button. Or by Cash / Check / MO to the address below:

Willy Snyder
PO Box 2732
Pocatello, ID 83206
****Due to overwhelming e-mails, I will be very slow in updating this list. Please bear with me!****


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: Anyone try the new Graf & Sons BP?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,626

    Anyone try the new Graf & Sons BP?

    I'll soon need to place a BP order and was wondering about the new Goex BP produced for Graf & Sons*. Any pros? cons?
    Thanks in advance!


    *previously produced by Wano (green label; red, white & blue "Schuetzen" label).

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    SE MISSOURI
    Posts
    721
    I would like to know also. I have been saving my last 1/2 pound of black for five years. And I really don’t want to shoot it up untill I get some more.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    306
    Been using the Green label a while... Didn’t know there was a new label. Good to know next time I buy. In for answers.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Chill Wills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,481
    Maven wrote: I'll soon need to place a BP order and was wondering about the new Goex BP produced for Graf & Sons*. Any pros? cons?
    Thanks in advance!

    *previously produced by Wano (green label; red, white & blue "Schuetzen" label
    ************************************************** ****************
    I think the new supplier is GOEX as of 2019 and I am guessing it would be their normal powder line and not from the Old Eynsford stock.
    Chill Wills

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Chill Wills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,481
    BTW- the quote function did not work??????? I had to cut and paste.

    Some of the buttons are locked up - like edit too???
    Chill Wills

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    645
    Isn't Goex now owned by Hornady?

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy arcticap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Central Connecticut
    Posts
    477
    Quote Originally Posted by smithnframe View Post
    Isn't Goex now owned by Hornady?
    Hodgdon bought Goex in 2009.
    That's the only recent sale of Goex that I can find.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,626
    All, The new, blue/gray labeled plastic containers are Goex. Here's a cut & paste from Graf's:

    Product Information
    As of 2019, Manufactured for Graf & Sons by Goex Powder Inc.
    While Goex has improved manufacturing processes and material quality, they have manufactured black powder using traditional materials to provide the same great ignition characteristics and uniform speed that master shooters and hunters have relied on for over 200 years.

    This FFg (or 2Fg) is suited for Muskets, Shotgun, Rifles (50-caliber and larger), Black Powder Cartridges, and large-bore Pistols.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    SW Pa.
    Posts
    2,546
    Ok it's Goex powder but how and why is it cheaper than the regular red label Goex or are they phasing out the red label or OE brand ? Got to be a reason why it's cheaper ?
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Chill Wills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,481
    Okay. It is good to know my memory is not completely gone.

    I think the main line GOEX is good for general use in ML and plinking with cartridge guns.
    Chill Wills

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy arcticap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Central Connecticut
    Posts
    477
    Quote Originally Posted by RU shooter View Post
    Ok it's Goex powder but how and why is it cheaper than the regular red label Goex or are they phasing out the red label or OE brand ? Got to be a reason why it's cheaper ?
    Because Graf's has a contract where they order a ton of powder and have it put into containers with their name on it.
    So they get a discounted price for ordering whole tons of it in advance.
    That way, Graf's is not competing against Goex, but helping Graf's sell more Goex by giving the public a lower price.
    Last edited by arcticap; 06-05-2020 at 08:39 AM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    1,701
    Quote Originally Posted by Chill Wills View Post
    Okay. It is good to know my memory is not completely gone.

    I think the main line GOEX is good for general use in ML and plinking with cartridge guns.
    If Goex can get back anywhere close to what they made 25 years ago it will beat the pants off Wano

  13. #13
    Boolit Mold Sven205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    13
    I've been curious of this as well.

    Got a few pounds last month but haven't opened any yet to compare to the regular GoEx.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    645
    Quote Originally Posted by arcticap View Post
    Hodgdon bought Goex in 2009.
    That's the only recent sale of Goex that I can find.
    I knew it started with an "H" .......thanks!

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    5,587
    Product Information
    As of 2019, Manufactured for Graf & Sons by Goex Powder Inc.
    While Goex has improved manufacturing processes and material quality, they have manufactured black powder using traditional materials to provide the same great ignition characteristics and uniform speed that master shooters and hunters have relied on for over 200 years.

    This FFg (or 2Fg) is suited for Muskets, Shotgun, Rifles (50-caliber and larger), Black Powder Cartridges, and large-bore Pistols.
    Maven,this is 'stretch of promotion' about the Goex powder produced for Graf & Sons. Unless it is Olde Eynsford FFg which is nothing more than the same processing steps as plain Goex FFg using yellow maple instead of Alder Buckthorn, that Schuetzen uses for charcoal ... Olde E' is nothing more than "juiced" up FFg with more 30 mesh AND 40 & 50 mesh added to raise the velocity
    An astute buy of the "new" Graf & Sons FFg powder ...is to call and ask them if the new powder is plain Goex FFg or Olde Eynsford FFg. And BTW, the best Goex FFg ever produced and now discontinued was Goex Cartridge. Shot over 2 cases in BPCR reloads

    Olde E FFg Density Test: Three samples locked at 100gr volumetric - powder vibrated and then weighed on a digital scale, accurate to x.02gr:
    1.5Fg - 1.0219 avg
    FFG - 1.0283 avg
    FFFg - 1.0824 avg

    Sieve Ratio
    Olde E FFg:
    20 mesh - 62.81% Hold verses 80% Hold
    30 mesh - 32.32% Hold
    40 mesh - 04.27% Hold
    50 mesh - 00.60% Hold

    60 mesh - Trace
    Last edited by John Boy; 06-05-2020 at 01:12 PM.
    Regards
    John

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    5,587
    I called Graf and Sons ... the "new" FFg powder is the Plain Goex FFg powder.
    IMO- Your better buying the "old" Graf's Schuetzen FFg because it is processed better than plain Goex FFg and their charcoal is made from Alder Buckthron which has more glucose (sugar) in the branches and provides a better brisance on ignition
    Regards
    John

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy arcticap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Central Connecticut
    Posts
    477
    The price for 5 pound's of Grafs is $105.40 delivered while the price for 5 lbs. of Shuetzen is $159.75 delivered from Powder, Inc.
    Any perceived difference in quality means paying $31.95 per pound for Schuetzen Vs. $21.08 per pound for Graf's.

    DeeTV posted on 3/15/2020, "I tried the Wano supplied Graf powder several pounds worth over the past couple of years and was not impressed with it. It is an acceptable inexpensive plinking powder; nothing wrong with that, but regular Goex and especially Old Eynsford bested it for accuracy and consistentcy. I want to try the Goex supplied powder this year." --->>> https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/t.../#post-1641609
    Last edited by arcticap; 06-05-2020 at 02:10 PM.

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    5,587
    arcticap - you may want to check prices at Buffalo Arms ... https://www.buffaloarms.com/black-powder-info
    You'll be surprised at the price differences
    I doubt that you are BPCR match shooter and your distances are not Mid @ 600yds and Long @ 1000 yards matches
    Regards
    John

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy arcticap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Central Connecticut
    Posts
    477
    Quote Originally Posted by John Boy View Post
    arcticap - you may want to check prices at Buffalo Arms ... https://www.buffaloarms.com/black-powder-info
    You'll be surprised at the price differences
    That's good to know.
    However shipping and hazmat for 5 lbs to my state would cost $43.93 for a total of $141.93.
    That's still $28.38 per pound.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Boy View Post
    I doubt that you are BPCR match shooter and your distances are not Mid @ 600yds and Long @ 1000 yards matches
    What does that have to do with the price of rice?
    Just because some folks prefer Goex over Wano?
    And some other folks can't even distinguish any difference between the two.
    If I were shooting long range matches I'd probably use Swiss like many champion shooters do.

    Try reading Post #3 of this thread about the poor quality of Wano powder when it first came out. --->>> https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/t...-powder.96727/
    Perhaps they've improved since then, but it shows that there's more to black powder performance than simply the type of charcoal that it's made with.
    Last edited by arcticap; 06-05-2020 at 06:23 PM.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    1,701
    I shot Wano alongside Moosic made Goex 20 odd years ago - the Goex seemed to have more velocity and definitely shot cleaner for me - found a friend with a chronograph to test it and we got near enough to 100FPS slower with the Wano in 44/40 cartridge and a 44 frontloader (this was 5FA Goex against FFFg Wano)
    I still have some of the Goex and two years back I bought a can of Wano PPP and repeated the test with my 44/40 (35 grains by weight of each) near enough to the same result 100FPS less velocity from the Wano .
    nothing wrong with Wano if its all you can get - we shot Chinese fireworks powder for several years because that was all was available - similar velocity to the wano - half the price - heaps dirty though. Wano is consistent its just slow and its not particularly clean. My comments here apply to Goex made in the Moosic plant before it blew mid '90's .

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check