Alloy for 35 Remington

[high standard 40]

OK, I have a Remington XP100R in 35 Remington. I have taken a few deer with this using jacketed bullets but I now wish to dedicate this gun to cast bullets only. I have the RCBS 200gr mold and have taken deer in my 35 Remington rifle using an alloy of 50/50 COWW/pure. I was not pleased with the exit wounds or the blood trails I got with that combination. So my question is this. How soft of an alloy can I use if I powder coat? The XP100 is a far stronger action than required for SAAMI spec 35 Remington so I have the flexibility in this 14" XP to load low velocity or up to full potential. I want better expansion and energy transfer so I want as soft an alloy as I can get away with. What is the softest alloy I can use if powder coated and gas checked. Shots will be limited to under 100 yards.

[Tripplebeards]

How fast were you pushing them? I just mixed up 20 pounds of the same alloy for my 35 Rem but didn’t cast with it today.

I did load some lee 200 grainers I casted up about a year ago with the same 50/50 alloy for my 35 Rem today. My 50/50 COWW and pure lead w/2%pewter added has a BH of 10.5. I do own a group buy HP 200 grain mold. I might have to mix up some 16/1 pure and pewter mix with a BH of 7.5 for it to try instead. I’ve tested the 16/1 pure and pewter mix with a 7.5 BH alloy out of my Ruger 77/44 to max velocities with a GC and PC with zero leading. Book says max velocities are around 1850 FPS? The best accuracy was a couple grains below max at I chronographed 1600 FPS. I haven’t tried the 16/1 alloy on deer yet but in a 265 grain Lyman devastator 44 cal they sure expand to a very large diameter in dirt and water. All I know is if i can’t get good accuracy with a max loading or close to with cast out of my 35 Rems I’ll use energy dumping J Words for hunting deer. After watching 2 deer run over a 100 yards with double lung shots back to back my 44 mag rifle at 1750 FPS using 15.4 Bh alloy and lyman devastator HP boolits I'm with you. The boolits never expanded and very poor blood trails. I want a boolit that will leave a couple inch exit hole. I think my 7.5 Bh alloy in my HP will be the ticket if I can get it to group at close to a max load.

I’ll watch this thread. I would think a HP cast boolit would make a big exit hole. How large of an exit holes are you getting on deer with the 50/50 lees?

[high standard 40]

The exit holes were little more than bullet diameter. I have yet to loose a deer with that cast load but tracking was tough. Unsure of velocity. No chrono.

[Tripplebeards]

This the group buy HP mold I have...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...375402-358-200

Mine is GC version. It came with a penta hp pin, the standard round HP pin, and plug so it can be casted as a solid boolit (w/o a HP). I was told by other members here to use the penta pin for rapid expansion. I think I’ll be be just fine with 50/50 alloy. I’m think if I go to soft I run into the same issue I did with using the softer alloy in my 77/44. It’s best accuracy with the softer alloy was at lower velocities even with a GC and PC. The harder 15.4 bh alloy I was shooting a hair over MOA at max load of 23.8 grains of H110. Softer alloy I was over twice that for a group measurement.

I read guys were getting 3” exits around 1900 FPS with your allow choice out of a 35 remington after drilling a 3/8” HP cavity in it using a drill bit. I think I’m going to cast with the round HP pin. I just don’t see the awkward looking penta HP holding as tight of groups at long range as the normal Round HP. It looks just to awkward.

[RU shooter]

I'm shooting the longer barreled brother of your xp100 with the lee version of that bullet. I've pushed that same50/50 alloy pretty hard never got an leading but groups opened up some im pretty sure I could cut it with more soft lead and still shoot at factory load speeds .Mine aren't powder coated just GC and regular lube with an over coat of BLL .

[zymguy]

This the group buy HP mold I have...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...375402-358-200

Mine is GC version. It came with a penta hp pin, the standard round HP pin, and plug so it can be casted as a solid boolit (w/o a HP). I was told by other members here to use the penta pin for rapid expansion. I think I’ll be be just fine with 50/50 alloy. I’m think if I go to soft I run into the same issue I did with using the softer alloy in my 77/44. It’s best accuracy with the softer alloy was at lower velocities even with a GC and PC. The harder 15.4 bh alloy I was shooting a hair over MOA at max load of 23.8 grains of H110. Softer alloy I was over twice that for a group measurement.

I read guys were getting 3” exits around 1900 FPS with your allow choice out of a 35 remington after drilling a 3/8” HP cavity in it using a drill bit. I think I’m going to cast with the round HP pin. I just don’t see the awkward looking penta HP holding as tight of groups at long range as the normal Round HP. It looks just to awkward.

I have not found the penta to be any less accurate than the solid In my 358 win
I haven’t set any accuracy records either


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[high standard 40]

Does anybody have experience with alloy softer than 50/50 with powdercoat? How fast can you push a pure lead gaschecked bullet with powdercoat?

[Lloyd Smale]

I shot two deer one year with that bullet in my 356. Casted out of 5050 ww/lino. Both deer died within 50 yards. If its expansion your looking for you should get yourself a hp mold because expansion will be iffy with that bullet even with 5050 ww/pure. Most likely what will happen is the nose will deform and the bullet will dive out of the deer and not track straight inside of it. Never had much luck with soft flat nose bullets.

OK, I have a Remington XP100R in 35 Remington. I have taken a few deer with this using jacketed bullets but I now wish to dedicate this gun to cast bullets only. I have the RCBS 200gr mold and have taken deer in my 35 Remington rifle using an alloy of 50/50 COWW/pure. I was not pleased with the exit wounds or the blood trails I got with that combination. So my question is this. How soft of an alloy can I use if I powder coat? The XP100 is a far stronger action than required for SAAMI spec 35 Remington so I have the flexibility in this 14" XP to load low velocity or up to full potential. I want better expansion and energy transfer so I want as soft an alloy as I can get away with. What is the softest alloy I can use if powder coated and gas checked. Shots will be limited to under 100 yards.

[Tripplebeards]

Been contemplating on penta vs the normal round HP pin. I think I’m going to go with my gut and cast with the round pin. Here’s a test someone did with both...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...xpansion/page2

[Larry Gibson]

I use the 35-200-FN in my 35 Rem but the rifle is a rebarreled M91 Mauser so I push it a lot more than SAAMI MAP loads which are based on the ability of the Remington M8 and M81s. As I push the COWW +2% tin then mixed 50/50 with lead at 2150 fps I've found excellent terminal performance out to 200 yards.. I also HP the bullets with a 1/8" Forster HP tool to 3/16" deep. Expansion and penetration have proven excellent with deer just going down within several yards. Note: I don't do "lung shots (behind the shoulder) nor Texas heart shots. I envision a soccer ball low against the brisket between the legs and put the bullet through that regardless of the angle. Bullet wounds have always tracked true and through and through.

However, the OP isn't going to achieve that performance with his shorter barreled XP100. He should be able to obtain 1600 - 1800 fps though. OP doesn't say what the load he's using is but might give H4895 a try or RL7. With that I suggest using a 16-1 (lead - tin) alloy. I don't powder coat but use GCs and a proper lube. The softer, more malleable alloy sans any antimony will expand nicely. I believe the deer in southern Louisiana to be a bit on the smaller side so thought might be given to HPing them also. The Forster HP tool works fine with a case trimmer.

Pictures are of a nice little Texas buck shot at about 90 yards, the exit wound and the 35 Rem w/HP'd bullet.

Attachment 260373Attachment 260374Attachment 260375

[Tripplebeards]

Larry, do you think the softer 16:1 will hold descent groups up to 2000 FPS or a hair over? I GC and PC. I know my best load in my 77/44 with the 16:1 alloy came from a lower velocity(1600fps). Maybe I’ll have to load test both. If I can get away with a softer alloy that expands and blows huge holes I’d be excited. I’ve watched your 50/50 posts and looks like you definitely found what works. I’d just like even a little more expansion and bigger holes...if that’s possible.

[Larry Gibson]

I don't know as I haven't tested 16-1 alloy above 1800 fps. I usually default to the COWW + 2% tin mixed 50/50 alloy above that. I guess the only way to know is to test as you suggest?

[Tripplebeards]

I broke in the MP HP 200 grain group buy .360 mold today. I used my 16 to 1 pure lead and pewter mix that has a BH of 7.5. I chose the deep round HP pin. I did get finning around the HP openings. I’m sure it’s because I ran my alloy and mold a little hot. I rubbed the HP cavities on a piece of paper sitting on a flat surface back and forth a couple of times to remove the finning. I separated them in 1 grain increments and the majority of my batch weighed 198 grains. I’ll PC, size, and GC with what I have left for 35 cal GC’s tomorrow.

[high standard 40]

To take the deer I mentioned earlier I used a T/C Contender carbine with a 20" MGM barrel. The load was 34 grains of H4895. I estimated the velocity at about 1900fps but that's just a guess based on published data. The shot distances were about 75 yards on average. I do have one of the Forster hollow pointing tools. I'm going to cast some more bullets with a 20/1 alloy and hollow point them to try. I checked my "lead alloy calculator" and the 20/1 has a BH of 10 compared to the 50/50 that Larry referenced with a BH of 10.3. My thoughts are that the 20/1 with no antimony will be a more malleable alloy, although perhaps not as strong an alloy as the 50/50. I also still have some of the original 50/50 loads and I'll hollow point some of those to test also.

[Tripplebeards]

My 16 to 1 that published data says is 11 BH tested at 7.5 BH when I tested it in my Lee hardness tester.

Here what this alloy did at 1600 FPS in a dirt backstop at 25 yards out of my Ruger 77/44 and a 44 caliber 263 grain Lyman devastator HP.








Here the water test I’d did with it at the same speed. The hard water medium melted the alloy to a flat looking slug and weighed about 136 grains. The dirt slug weighed about 184 grains. The boolit started at 263 grains. You can see how all the tin made my alloy pedals flow back and not shatter with the slug I recovered from the dirt backstop.





Both way harder of a test medium then thin skinned game. I’m hoping that the soft alloy expands rapid and violent enough to blow a huge hole in a deer at 2000 FPS in my 35 Rem 336 & 7600 carbine. Also in my 35 whelen 7600 carbine.

I was afraid that this alloy was to soft after the water test so I used 80/20 with 15% pewter at 1750 FPS. It made a perfect mushroom in my water test but never expanded through three deer I shot within seconds apart which equaled long trailing with little to no blood.

I’m guessing my pewter/pure 16:1 mix is as close to soft lead pure lead as it’s 7.5 Bh vs the 5BH the pure lead started out as but all the tin makes it tough as holds together. I haven’t tried it on a deer yet but in sure it should leave a good size exit hole.

My 50/50 mix with 2%pewter tested at 10.5 BH and acted about the same as my 16:1 in a water my test at 1750 FPS. If you check my home page I posted pics of the expanded boolits and alloys I water tested with weights listed.

[Tripplebeards]

I just PC’d my batch. You can see how large the HP cavity is. At 7.5. BH it should make one heck of a hole at 35 remington velocities. These couple purple ones were my rejects that I had fun mixing PC colors and tumbling.

[35remington]

I have had no trouble getting the RCBS bullet up to a little over 2000 fps in 14 inch Contender barrels but likely a bit in excess of SAAMI spec. Powder used was H322. At this speed straight wheelweight material worked fine at woods ranges.

I am not concerned so much with exit hole diameter as I am with internal organ damage. Such damage should be and is greatly in excess of what is seen when handguns firing cast or jacketed bullets in the 1300 fps vicinity are used.

[Tripplebeards]

I know Larry is always right so I casted up 7.2 pounds of 50/50 pure and COWW plies 2% pewter today. Started this morning and finished about supper time. I was impressed that 37 of the boolits weighed from 196.0 to 196.9 and all the rest weighed 197.0 to 197.9! I think I counted 197 of the 197 grain boolots I casted...how’s that for a coincidence! I’m liking this mold! This MP is my favorite mold by far. I figured this alloy will hold up better at faster speeds in my 35 whelen. I’ll test both alloys at 35 Remington j word velocities and see which one groups best.






The 196er’s are purple and the 197’s are clear.

[Tripplebeards]

Tested both alloys today with my lee tester. My 16:1 measured .80” with two different marks I made and the 50/50 measured .70” twice. So 10.4 BH on my 50/50 and. My lee chart didn’t go below .79” which my lee chart said was 8 BH so I’m guessing my 16:1 is around 7.8 BH.

50/50 on the left and 16:1 on the right.

[Tripplebeards]

Finally tried out my two HP alloys today I my marlin 336 chambered in 35 Remington. The only powder I tried both with was Varget. About 5 loads each in a ladder test. 50/50 prevailed today with 40 grains of Varget. The top group is at 100 yards with it. The group below was with 36.2 grains of imr3031 and the lee.



My best group with the softer 16:1 with a 7.8 BH measured 2” at 100 yards. The first two shots landed in the same hole and the third land 2” away from the other two. Zero leading.


I’m sure either either alloy will put one heck of a smack down on a deer.