Forming 577 Snider

[tmanbuckhunter]

I've searched, but I'm curious about one thing. I have heard where guys will form 577 Snider without dies, but rather cutting down 24ga brass cases to the desired length, and fire-forming the brass with a 58 Caliber Minie ball or a slug, and then loading as normal with a .600 diameter bullet. What is the preferred method here?

[jugulater]

If the chamber will accept the unsized brass it should be fine. i wouldnt even bother with the .58 minies, just load them up with .600 balls and shoot it.

but it depends on the gun. most nepalese guns have generous chambers and will present no problem. i have very little experience with proper British Sniders or other guns in the caliber.

i load .577 Snider with 60grn of Fg using Foam window backer rod as filler with a .600 caliber ball on top, then i dip the loaded round in SPG. My Nepalese Snider shoots very well using this method.
i do use lathe turned brass, so i imagine a larger charge may be needed using the balloon head shotgun shells.

one last thing, i have to neck size my brass as after firing the .600 roundball will simply fall right in, so you may end up needing a sizing die anyways.

[tmanbuckhunter]

If the chamber will accept the unsized brass it should be fine. i wouldnt even bother with the .58 minies, just load them up with .600 balls and shoot it.

but it depends on the gun. most nepalese guns have generous chambers and will present no problem. i have very little experience with proper British Sniders or other guns in the caliber.

i load .577 Snider with 60grn of Fg using Foam window backer rod as filler with a .600 caliber ball on top, then i dip the loaded round in SPG. My Nepalese Snider shoots very well using this method.
i do use lathe turned brass, so i imagine a larger charge may be needed using the balloon head shotgun shells.

one last thing, i have to neck size my brass as after firing the .600 roundball will simply fall right in, so you may end up needing a sizing die anyways.

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to be shooting a proper british Snider. I see a lot of people recommending a .600 diameter or larger bullet regardless of where the rifle came from. I did see a video of a guy loading 577 Snider and he did exactly what I mentioned. He seated the bullets by hand on top of the powder column. His column consisted of a charge of 2f black, corn meal, an over powder wad, and then hand seating of the projectile using just the lubricant to hold the bullet in the case. I'm actually loading my blackpowder 45/70's in a similar manner, except no corn meal obviously. Compress with a compression die and overpowder wad, and seat the bullets by hand with a mild roll crimp to hold everything in place.

[swamp]

To try it, you might use 24 ga. plastic hulls.
swamp

[jugulater]

Sounds like you're pretty well set. all sniders run on the fat side when it comes to groove diameter it seems. Fg/FFg is a personal preference thing, i prefer Fg in larger cases as it takes up more space.

Corn meal is also a fine filler in the .577 snider as the straight wall case doesn't suffer from the issues with fillers that necked cases like the 577/450 do. you could rely on the lube to hold the ball in the case if the fired shells allow it, depends on the gun ultimately.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I make my 577 Snider from 24ga Magtec brass, first trim to 2.00" then three gradule passes in the FLS die to form the shoulder. The virgin brass at 0.625" is way to oversized to hold a 'minnie'.

I have both standard sniders and the "Super Snider" an custom built Martini Henry with a new Walther barrel. I load a 620gn boolit over 92gns of Wano 2P.

[djryan13]

Sounds like you're pretty well set. all sniders run on the fat side when it comes to groove diameter it seems. Fg/FFg is a personal preference thing, i prefer Fg in larger cases as it takes up more space.

Corn meal is also a fine filler in the .577 snider as the straight wall case doesn't suffer from the issues with fillers that necked cases like the 577/450 do. you could rely on the lube to hold the ball in the case if the fired shells allow it, depends on the gun ultimately.

Good tip about Fg... not sure why I didn’t think of that.

Rather than corn meal alone, I mix a 50/50 corn meal to BP as a filler. First, I put in my charge (it’s been years and my load book is in the workshop so don’t recall). Then I fill case with the corn meal/BP mix. Then compress/seat.

There are some folks (and I don’t know enough to refute) who say corn meal alone in that big case causes issue in the barrel. I don’t recall the details but it made sense so I went with the suggestion of 50/50 - again, only at the top.

Gosh, I haven’t shot that thing in about 6 years. I need to get it out next weekend!

[yulzari]

Save yourself all the trouble and get the cases from Martyn at xringservices at xringservices@yahoo.com. Not that much more than the bare cases and cut and formed to fit. I have used nothing else and none have ever failed (except the one I hit with a hammer by accident.

[DxieLandMan]

Save yourself all the trouble and get the cases from Martyn at xringservices at xringservices@yahoo.com. Not that much more than the bare cases and cut and formed to fit. I have used nothing else and none have ever failed (except the one I hit with a hammer by accident.

He's who I use. Never had any problem with any of his brass. Always quality brass and service.

[djryan13]

Save yourself all the trouble and get the cases from Martyn at xringservices at xringservices@yahoo.com. Not that much more than the bare cases and cut and formed to fit. I have used nothing else and none have ever failed (except the one I hit with a hammer by accident.

The hammer test is for coated bullets, not cases.

[fgd135]

To try it, you might use 24 ga. plastic hulls.
swamp

Swamp, there just seems to be absolutely no plastic 24 gauge hulls for sale anywhere right now, in fact for the last year or two.
Do you have a source?

[tmanbuckhunter]

Save yourself all the trouble and get the cases from Martyn at xringservices at xringservices@yahoo.com. Not that much more than the bare cases and cut and formed to fit. I have used nothing else and none have ever failed (except the one I hit with a hammer by accident.

I actually sent him an email last night, and will be going in that direction. The price of his 577/450 brass has me thinking of picking up two old rifles to add to the collection.

[jugulater]

Xring services is highly respected for quality products, you can not go wrong there.

The 577/450 is a different animal to load for as Corn meal filler can be problematic in the large necked case.

if you plan to load for the Martini Henry you should do some reading and question asking on The British Militaria forums about the use of foam backer rod as filler. i also suggest Cast Bullet Engineering’s mould that replicates the original MH boolit.

Link- https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/

[swamp]

I got mine from BPI. Ballistic Products Inc. Haven't checked to se if they are in stock. Just checked BPI and both brands they carry are out of stock.

[tmanbuckhunter]

Xring services is highly respected for quality products, you can not go wrong there.

The 577/450 is a different animal to load for as Corn meal filler can be problematic in the large necked case.

if you plan to load for the Martini Henry you should do some reading and question asking on The British Militaria forums about the use of foam backer rod as filler. i also suggest Cast Bullet Engineering’s mould that replicates the original MH boolit.

Link- https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/

Thanks. I wasn't planning on using corn meal because of the bottle neck, but backer rod wasn't on the list either. I can see how that would work well though!


Pulled the trigger on a very nice Snider, now for the wait. I have a mystery alloy I mixed up a few weeks ago out of a bunch of alloy I had laying around to make use of it; scrap in small quantities that when combined gave me 100lbs of usable alloy. It's antimonial, although how much I'm not sure, but it tests out at 13-14ish BHN. It's running well out of my trapdoor over a decent charge of 2F, and obviously great out of the smokeless guns, and fills out a mold real well. I'm wondering how well it will work in a Snider. I'm all out of pure for the next month or so.

[KCSO]

The Lee dies over size the 577 rounds for most rifles. But the 24 Ga brass cases do need some sizing to fit in the chamber. I size first in the lee die and then use a 595 round ball over powder and cream of wheat filler to fire form the cases. Then I reload with 600 diameter bullets for the real deal rounds. I have had no accuracy in shooting the 58 Minnie balls in the 577. My 577 has a 595 bore and still shoots 600 bullets just fine. My load is 65 grains of FFg or Fg Black powder and filler to the base of the bullet. I shoot Swiss an only compress firm with a wooden dowel. A card wad over the corn meal or cow and a grease cookie under the bullet. The original rounds that I had were Dominion and had a 578 bullet with a plug in the base and a wad of fibre of some sort and about 70 grains of what looked to be f or ffg black.

[fgd135]

My 3 band Sniders shoot accurately with Xring .600" 520 grain and 440 grain bullets cast in pure lead. I don't even neck size the CBC cases after fire forming.

[pworley1]

I make mine from 24 ga brass shot shells. My 577 sizing die reduces the brass way too much, I just use the crimp die and shoot minnie balls.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

A mystery to me but that is what makes shooting these old originals so interesting.

No mystery, just enjoy the results with a 150 year old rifle.

[tmanbuckhunter]

No mystery, just enjoy the results with a 150 year old rifle.

Nothing to complain about with that target.

Shot my trapdoor today 300 yards to get ready in anticipation for the Snider to come from the Great White North. Man, I'm excited!