Lead alloy for pistol bullets that will be PC'd

[dangerranger]

I tried the search and did not find my answer, and went back 10 pages and still did not find what I'm looking for.
For many years I have cast WWM + 1% tin for all my pistol bullets. I have been happy with that. only in 357 mag and 38 Super do I even water drop them. But now I want to try powder coating .

I have a good supply of both soft lead and WWM. With the PC coating can I mix the two and extend my supply of WWM? Or should I stick with the WWM and when its gone start mixing Roto Metals "Chips" to duplicate the WWM?

I'm shooting 45 acp, 45 colt, 357, 38 super, 38 spl, and 9mm,. I would like to use the same alloy for all of them. What do you all think?
Only the 357 and 38 Super get pushed over 1200 fps.

Will a softer alloy get the job done with PC? or stick to what I know works and PC them? Thanks DR

[bmortell]

id mix half WW half soft with some tin, cast, air cool, apply powder, bake, then higher speed ones drop the baking tray into a 5 gallon bucket of cold water immediately from the oven. dont really think theres such a thing as a right hardness. some guys like well i shoot pure lead PC'd at full rifle speeds with perfect results. then i have guns where soft PC works fine as far as leading but i have to go over recommended hardness for better accuracy. so id just mix like that then use water dropped from the oven if it works better.

[DHDeal]

Like bmortell said, I don't believe there's a thing as the "right" hardness. That said, I do prefer softer to harder alloys. I tend to use 75/25 WW to pure more often than not. The only reason I don't use 50/50 of the above is I have more 12ish BHN alloy than the pure. Whatever my alloy ends up being BHN wise, works for the accuracy I seek (one hole is my preference!). Most of my molds are GC designs so BHN isn't terribly important, but the PB molds still shoot great. Leading is rare enough that if I see any, I did something wrong or different than usual.

PC is enjoyable to do and the end product makes me wonder why I have so many jacketed revolver bullets.

[bangerjim]

PC is very forgiving. It forms the harder shell around the softer Pb. I don't worry about hardness anymore for all the cal's you listed. I just mix (by the seat of my pants) an alloy soup that ends up somewhere between 10 and 12 hardness + 1-2% Sn for perfect mold fill-outs every time.. The PC takes care of the rest.

I get no leading, no grease smoke, no sticky boolits in the summer, excellent accuracy, and perfectly clean barrels in all my guns. And lots of OOHS and AAHS at the ranges over the rainbow of colors I use.

I now ESPC everything. Started out working with many others on here back in ~2014 developing PC techniques which at that time was only BBDT. But after discovering the perfect repeatable coatings I get with a corona discharge spray gun, I threw all the #5 tubs away!

Cast away.....................and don't sweat the hardness thing with PC.


bangerjim

[dangerranger]

Thank you all! I tried PC'd bullets because I live where its very hot. The wax lubes are always sticky. They tend to catch and hold grit. I'm also always cleaning lube out of my seating dies. With the PC bullets it is so much cleaner. I'm gearing up for my first batch. DR

[popper]

9 is probable only one needing COWW

[Kraschenbirn]

My 'pistol alloy' for handgun boolits consists of 1 part COWW and 2 parts range scrap plus 2% Sn (by actual weight). Air-cooled and PC'd, these work just dandy for .38/.357, .44/.44 Mag, 9mm, and .45 ACP at velocities under 1200 fps. Over 1200 fps...like for my 1894 Marlin .44 or Rossi 92 .357...I go 50/50 COWW/RS plus 2% SN.

Bill

[Conditor22]

[cwlongshot]

That chart isnt or wasnt used with powder coatings considerations. Its for a conventional lubed bullet.

You can absolutely go softer than the lowest recomendetions in that chart with properly applied powder coating.

Many of us do it all the time. Just yesterday I was shooting good groups from my Maxi carbine with a 358429 powdercoated about 11/12 bhn @ 2200 fps. ZERO FOULING from the bullet.

CW

[bangerjim]

Yes.....................forget all the on-line "LA reference" charts of years/decades past. PC rewrote the "book of hardness". Like I said above, I cast EVERYTHING at pretty much the same hardness and then PC it. NO problems in any cal's/sizes/loads/guns. It just removes one more worry about rolling your own ammo!

banger

[Shuz]

Banger--When you heat your powder coated boolits to 400 deg F. do you then quench them in cold water?

[kevin c]

My understanding of COWW is that one of its advantages is the arsenic content, which is a grain refiner allowing effective heat treatment for additional hardening. You can duplicate the antimony and tin content of old COWW with metals bought from Rotometals, but I don't think you can, and maybe you wouldn't want to, buy pure arsenic to mix your own. You'd need to add another source of arsenic, like magnum shot, or another grain refiner, like sulfur, to get the same benefit. That being said, most pistol velocity loadings seem to do fine with coated cast of softer alloy, so the arsenic is not needed, the antimony and tin providing enough hardness, with good fit and the coating doing the rest.

So if you really need to heat treat for very hard boolits in, say rifle velocity applications, it'd argue for saving the real COWW alloy for that, and using alloys with AC COWW hardness, coated, for pistol velocity applications.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I've run powdercoated 49/49/2 WW/Pure/tin (8-10 BHN) with a gas check at 2300 fps with 1.5-2 MOA accuracy. As long as the case doesn't swage down the boolit, you should be fine.

[Wisest.fool]

I have had success with coww/2%tin up to 2700fps(gas checked) with no leading. However accuracy in the 308 dropped off around 2500fps. For pistol i have used 50/50 coww/range scrap for loads 1000fps and up. And for 45 colt 45 acp under 1000fps just range scrap. All bullets powdercoated.

[bangerjim]

Banger--When you heat your powder coated boolits to 400 deg F. do you then quench them in cold water?

No. I NEVER rely on the alchemy of water quenching to gain hardness. I always mix my alloy for the hardness I want when only air cooled. And water dropping at 400F, you will gain very little hardness. Your Pb needs to be upwards of full casting temp, just below the liquidus temp, as when you drop them from the mold.

And remember it is the Sb content that hardens.

[fredj338]

I shoot pretty much range scrap in all my handguns, 9mm up thru midrange magnums & 45-70. Bullets don't lead PC, even at 1500fps in the 45-70. Accuracy is as good as I can shoot jacketed.

[res45]

id mix half WW half soft with some tin, cast, air cool, apply powder, bake, then higher speed ones drop the baking tray into a 5 gallon bucket of cold water immediately from the oven. dont really think theres such a thing as a right hardness. some guys like well i shoot pure lead PC'd at full rifle speeds with perfect results. then i have guns where soft PC works fine as far as leading but i have to go over recommended hardness for better accuracy. so id just mix like that then use water dropped from the oven if it works better.

I use the same for all my handgun bullets, 9 mm, 45 ACP, 38 / 357 and 9 x 18 Mak. I air cool my 38 +P and 45 ACP HPs and quench all the rest. Excellent accuracy no feed or leading issues what so ever. COWW are harder to find than in days gone by so I started using the 50/50 mix some years ago to extend my COww stash, it works great in rifles as well.

[charlie b]

I am another who does not quench bullets. I just start with the alloy I want.

And, yes, PC changes the velocities we can reach without leading a barrel. Velocity is limited by the twist rate and how perfect your bullets are.

For rifles I normally use Lyman #2 or Hardball, around 16bhn. Powder coated these are good for over 2400fps. I have shot powder coated, plain base .30cal bullets at over 2000fps without leading. Most of the time I use gas checks.