I think I knew this, but it has just now sunk in

[kevin c]

That smokeless powders don't need to be grey, or, more specifically, graphite colored to function. The graphite is just a coating for antistatic and metering characteristics.

Yes, I've read about "poudre blanc", and have seen pictures of yellowish brown cordite, and have seen white nitrocellulose flash paper, but it wasn't until I just recently saw a Vihtavouri production video where I saw my favorite propellants coming out of the extruder looking whiter than rice noodles that it hit me that, yeah, black powder is black because one of it's constituent ingredients is that color, but nitrocellulose, nitroglycerin and the other stuff that affect burn characteristics in smokeless are anything but black.

I just cut open a grain of VV N320, and sure enough the gray is just skin deep. The interior is an off white to slightly yellow color.

Maybe this isn't an "aha!", for me it's still a "huh, well, I'll be..." moment.

[Froogal]

"TrailBoss" powder looks like tiny little cheerios, and is the same color.

[Winger Ed.]

As well as the size & shape--- The layer of graphite, and how thick it is controls and/or slows down the speed or burn rate of it.
Powder makers don't go to the extra step in production or added expense just for looks.

[MrHarmless]

Powder makers don't go to the extra step in production or added expense just for looks.

I for one think they should. I want rainbow colored 4198 for my 45-70, and Red, White and Blue 4895 for the Garand!

[EMC45]

Varget looks good to me

[Mytmousemalibu]

I have some old Dupont smokless Bulk Shotshell & Bulk Pistol powders. It looks of the same grainy texture and color of yellow cornmeal! Looks NOTHING like halfway modern and newer smokeless powders.

[Winger Ed.]

I for one think they should. I want rainbow colored 4198 for my 45-70, and Red, White and Blue 4895 for the Garand!

Shame on you. 10,000 comedians out of work,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and you're being funny.

[EMC45]

Varget looks good to me

I meant to say GOLD

[kevin c]

Well, all'y'all's comments just show how few powders I've seen. I don't think I've used anything except canister pistol and shotgun powders of recent vintage (I just picked up some powders to try loading for rifle, but haven't even cracked open the Varget).

[Gewehr-Guy]

I've been using some Vectan AO powder,big square green flakes, a very odd looking powder to me, but really like it.

[Texas by God]

The old Hercules Reloader 7, 11, & 21 had colored rods mixed in with the dark gray rods. Back in my youth.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[EMC45]

The old Hercules Reloader 7, 11, & 21 had colored rods mixed in with the dark gray rods. Back in my youth.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I've pulled down old reloaded 30-06 hunting ammo that had bright red rods in it. The powder went in the yard and I kept the brass/bullets.

[303Guy]

I've noticed how incomplete burn powder kernels are yellow but otherwise intact.

I do wonder what coating or compostion differences there might be between H4350 and Varget. They both look the same. H4350 has slightly bigger kernels. Could the size be the only difference?

[EMC45]

I've noticed how incomplete burn powder kernels are yellow but otherwise intact.

I do wonder what coating or compostion differences there might be between H4350 and Varget. They both look the same. H4350 has slightly bigger kernels. Could the size be the only difference?

I've seen this too. Mostly with lead free training ammo. I call it cornmeal, that's what it looks to me.

[kevin c]

I meant to say GOLD

My Mark I eyeballs need a refit: the new Varget I just took a look at looks an almost identical graphite gray compared to the VV N320 I looked at before (similar but not quite the same looking extruded short stick too).

This reference describes Varget as gold colored and its picture of Varget shows the same. Mine most surely does not look like that, all three cans contain a grey extruded stick powder.

http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/samp...?powder_id=575

http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/samp...?powder_id=491

Anybody know if Varget has changed?

[1hole]

I'm no chemist so all I know about smokless powders is what I've read since I started reloading in '65. And, from that, I know a lot of what I've read on the web is personal opinion B.S.

Powder production isn't rocket science, it much more complex than that. Powder makers run huge lots of powders that have to be checked in a "closed bomb" test. Those lots that fall into certain narrow ranges of burn time/pressure is packaged and sold to us as "cannister powder" under the label it most closely fits. That means the burn rate of our powder can and does vary a bit by the lot. Many folk know that but not all of them know if the peak pressure changes the burn rate also changes so burn rate charts simply give us an insight, it's NOT something we can hang our hats on. Some powders burn differently at different pressures and, depending on the pressure, some can exchange places on the burn charts. That's why it's important to use the same powder lot number if you're loading anywhere near a KABOOM with your current lot number. So, if you get a new lot number, set your charges back a bit and test for increased pressure with the newer lot.)

The specific chemical composition of any new powder lot doesn't much matter, what matters is the test effects of whatever powder is under the lab's microscope each day. Appalled posts of "They have changed IMX 9.9-4 .... without telling us!" don't understand that each new lot of any (retail) canister powder has proven to be within normal limits from previous lots of the same label.

If/when "they" make and wish to market a new powder it will be marked as such. There is no point in "them" doing otherwise because it would greatly increase the company's legal exposure if they did significantly change a powder but called it something else; that just ain't gonna happen!

[Burnt Fingers]

I'm no chemist so all I know about smokless powders is what I've read since I started reloading in '65. And, from that, I know a lot of what I've read on the web is personal opinion B.S.

Powder production isn't rocket science, it much more complex than that. Powder makers run huge lots of powders that have to be checked in a "closed bomb" test. Those lots that fall into certain narrow ranges of burn time/pressure is packaged and sold to us as "cannister powder" under the label it most closely fits. That means the burn rate of our powder can and does vary a bit by the lot. Many folk know that but not all of them know if the peak pressure changes the burn rate also changes so burn rate charts simply give us an insight, it's NOT something we can hang our hats on. Some powders burn differently at different pressures and, depending on the pressure, some can exchange places on the burn charts. That's why it's important to use the same powder lot number if you're loading anywhere near a KABOOM with your current lot number. So, if you get a new lot number, set your charges back a bit and test for increased pressure with the newer lot.)

The specific chemical composition of any new powder lot doesn't much matter, what matters is the test effects of whatever powder is under the lab's microscope each day. Appalled posts of "They have changed IMX 9.9-4 .... without telling us!" don't understand that each new lot of any (retail) canister powder has proven to be within normal limits from previous lots of the same label.

If/when "they" make and wish to market a new powder it will be marked as such. There is no point in "them" doing otherwise because it would greatly increase the company's legal exposure if they did significantly change a powder but called it something else; that just ain't gonna happen!

Your post makes it sound like they make these lots nilly willy then test them to see what they are. Nothing could be further from the truth.

They know what the end product is going to be before they start. They also blend batches of powders to get lots that fall into the desired burn rate.