45-70 shot shells

[crackerjack57]

I am having a lot of fun with my 45-70 and loading 405 grain hollow base lee cast boolits. I'm use to hunting with a 7.62x39 or a 30/06 but wow can this thing be loaded from mild to wild!!

What im wondering is when I'm in the bush toting this rifle and see a ruffed grouse. Its kind a waste to pull the trigger and with one boom kill, de-feather, and cook that bird in one motion. In fact i think it could probably be launched right back to camp in that form without the need of me carrying it all the way back.

Have any of you loaded hand loads that are bird shot? I'm not talking about a .410 shot shell. there is lots of guys out there that use a 2 1/2-3" shot shell so I know about that. I'm talking about hand loading something special. I know that the rifling would create spin and open up the pattern quickly. might waxing the entire clump of shot in wax help keep the groups tighter and slow down spread?

I'm sure some of you who have had the 45-70 for a long time might of played with this idea.

Thanx all and i hope I'm not being political incorrect to wish all a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[groovy mike]

It has been done. I'd use a 410 shot cup over a cardboard wad and an over the shot card on top in a 45-70 case. Might just go home and build a few....

[Larry Gibson]

Foraging shot 45-70 load

I use a fired R-P case but others work just as well.

Deprime and reprime with standard LR (make doesn’t seem to matter) primer.

Drop 10 gr of Unique over primer and then gently push a ½ gr of Dacron down on top as a “wad”.

A Federal 410SC shotcup is pushed in and seated down on top of the Dacron. I use a pencil (erasure end) for both of the above steps.

The cup is then filled with shot until it is “heaping” over the case mouth.

An inverted GC or a thick cardboard wad is pressed down until inside the case mouth.

The case mouth is then crimped to hold the GC/wad in. A standard roll crimp seating die works fine. I set a 230 gr .451 .45 ACP bullet (a 300 – 400 gr GC base bullet without the GC works well too) on top of the GC/wad. By adjusting the seating stem so the bullet holds the GC/wad just inside the case mouth at the right depth when crimped works well.

Velocity is 1160 fps out of my 22” barreled Trapdoor carbine. I’ve shot 20 shots with no leading as the bore is protected by the Federal wad. Pattern with 22” twist rifling is useable to 25 yards with 7 shot on grouse and rabbits and to perhaps 20 yards on quail. Ground sluicing is acceptable when “foraging”. Smaller shot should be used (8-9 size shot) if close range aerial gunnery is done on smaller birds. For snakes at close range the number of shot with even #7 shot is dense enough given the amount of shot. This load is pretty much the same as a 2 ½” .410 shot shell.


Larry Gibson

[crackerjack57]

I appreciate the great info. does anyone have any past experience with pouring hot wax over the whole load of shot? basically molding it into a solid mass of shot and wax? wonder what that might do to hold the shot together a little further for a tighter pattern.

[drinks]

The wax job is also known as the pore boy slug!!!!!!!!

[crackerjack57]

Would it do what I am thinking?

[Duckdog]

Do you get any plastic fouling from the wad?

[crackerjack57]

I haven't tried anything yet so don't know about plastic fouling so far.

[Michael J. Spangler]

tagged for updates. always enjoy working out extra uses for the guns i already have

[white eagle]

sounds like a good recipe Larry
great idea Crackerjack

[Bullshop Junior]

i have a hard time belieing that it would create a pattern that would be usable. I had a rifled 12ga for a while with a 1/35" twist, and at ten feet it wouldnt keep all the pellets on the side of a Kia.

[Duckdog]

I have a couple of 45/410 H&Rs and they do actually throw a good pattern as long as the choke tube is in it to stop the load from spiraling. Otherwise, they tend to have a hole in the middle of the pattern. But, never having put shot through a 4570, I would not want to say it wont shoot good.

[kootne]

I have loaded 45/70 cases with data for a .410 as my reference. Fired in a Springfield trapdoor they went "bang". At 40'-50', a covey of ruffed grouse could have survived unscathed in the hollow center of the patterns. This was a rifle cut down to carbine length. But I love the idea, if you come up with a working load please post it. I think a better way might be to try reduced loads such as given in Wolf's book, "loading original cartridges for the Trapdoor Springfield". Some of these loads use round balls and some use hollow base .45 Colt bullets. I have not personaly tried any except the "3 ball guard load" which did not group well beyond 25 yards. I have also tried a .410- 2-1/2" shell in the trapdoor. Don't do that! unless you want to see how well a trapdoor vents gas.
kootne

[monge]

This is a great thread I was thinking of taking a single shot shot gun in the woods when I hunt deer seems like the only time I see small game is when deer seasons open! with these 45-70 shot shells I can shoot those plump grouse that are under my stand! Going to get right to work on them. Thanks JOE

[drinks]

57, when I tried it, the shot was a solid clump at 25 yds, no spread at all.

[Crawdaddy]

Larry, great detail on how you did that. I am playing with 44 mag shotshells from a method another user posted.

I was able to get 7/8 oz in it. Going to the range today to play with it.

I must admit I never thought about 45/70. I like the idea better than the 44 I think.

How much shot was in your load?

Great thread.

[skruske]

Not quite in the same league but I do have some wax shot 32-20 rounds with #9 shot in them. I recall many years ago DK17HMR patterned one round & at 20' it will probably put a rabbit in the pot.

I now have a new load to try. I'll see if my Pedersoli Sharps 45/70 will produce acceptable results. #7 1/2 shot should do the trick.

[monge]

Now I have a good reason to buy a BFR in 45-70 Ill just mark the cyl that have shot in them , Depending what show up under my stand deer grouse or rabbit!

[Michael J. Spangler]

Any new experimenters?
I think I'm going to try this tonight or tomorrow.

[kens]

My experience with muzzle loading shotguns (smoothbore, no choke) is that powder charge effects pattern.
The higher velocity you launch the pellets, the more they open up the pattern.
For muzzle loader straight tube barrels, you get full choke by slowing down the charge. Actually a smaller powder charge tightens up the pattern.
So, if you wanted a skeet load you would have heavy powder with light shot charge.
And for trap, you load light powder with heavy shot charge (and lead the birds)

If this holds true for throwing shot out of a rifled barrel, then try a low velocity load.