Need some price checks on Single shot rifles.

[koger]

Well folks I have run across several singles shots, one already followed me home, It was a, I think, Carl Gustav, 1867 stamped on the side of the receiver, but it has another name stamped over the original on the tang, and 1880 stamped on there. It had, I think, been heat treated again, and rebarreled. It has a lot of armory stanmps.It has a light brown patina, even lighter on the frame. The face of the rolling block is still nice and blue, the bore is mint, sharp rifling, very bright, in 45/70. It has the full length barrel, I think 32", military bands and wood, metal ramrod. The mechanicals and the bore sold me. The stock and forearm are walnut, all solid as a rock. There is a small round brass rod,in the right hand side of the stock, looks original. I gave $500 out the door, when I got it home I sat down on my bench, and shot at a 4" gong, at 140 yds, hitting about4" low, dead center. I clicked it up one click, and hit the gong 3 in a row, with some 350 gr cast I had loaded up with 15grs of Unique. I think I did alright.

Now on to the other two that are still available. One looks to be re arsenaled, 43 Argentina model, with all the correct markings, great wood, great blue, mirror bore. He wants $500 for it.

And last they have a Sharps Borchardt, in 45/70. Military full length stock, ramrod, stock, it says on the barrel, Old Reliabl, Sharps Manafacturing, Bridgeport Conn. The barrel is about 98% blue, with a mint bore. The receiver had some rust, and the owner had taken some 600 grit and cleaned it off, looks like with a little tlc, it could be restored. Everything works as it should, mechanically perfect. He asked me $1500 for it. He was selling them on consignment for a local doctor, whose father had hundreds of guns when he died. He was a Hoarder, and had his huge house full of trash, and guns, all piled up. He said he had to clean the receiver up or it would have been worse. I could easily put a matte finish on the barrel and receiver, hot blue it and it would pass for original, I have redid a bunch of old guns like this, over the years.

I thought he was too high on the .43 Aregentina, but I thought he was light on the Sharps Borchardt, you see very very few of them, anywhere. All feedback appreciated.

[samari46]

You seem to like rolling blocks, so my first answer would be to get the Argentine one. However having said that. My other option would be the Sharps,Boardchart they didn't make a lot of them and a lot were converted into varmint rifles back in the 50's & 60's. It does definitely has collecter value. But there are smiths out there who can do wonders for a superb trigger pull. So I would say get the Sharps if you can swing the $$$. Frank

[gnoahhh]

Ditto. The Borschardt if you can swing it. Five years from now you'll be still glad you did.

[koger]

Thanks for the reply guys, I did a lot of online auction searches last night, and the cheapest one I saw in original condition, went for $2600, and it was not functioning. Some sporterized models went for $3600 and up, in good condition, but had been refinished, and several that were in the shape the one I am looking at or worse, went for $4200-4600. I may be selling some stuff to go get the Sharps.

[marlinman93]

The Borchardt is a no brainer to me at the price. I haven't seen a military Borchardt in decent shape for $1500 in many years. So buying that one would be my first choice. I'd pass on the Argentine Roller, as it's a bit high, and I am not a fan of the caliber based solely on the cost of brass, and availability of it.
Hopefully "mechanically perfect" means a great bore also? If so it's the keeper!
I would not ruin the gun by hot bluing the receiver. I'd simply rust blue the receiver, and end up with a more valuable rifle, and not hurt the looks.

[koger]

Thanks Marlin man, I plan on picking it up Tuesday.

[dtknowles]

I would think carefully before I bought an antique collector's firearm. In 20 years will anyone care to buy those guns? I have a postage stamp collection. Nobody cares about postage stamps anymore.

Tim

[koger]

In the last 30 years, great condition Single shot rifles have steadily risen in value, as has most guns. I bought a dozen 1896 Swedes in a crate in 1995, for $69 each. I just sold the last one for $650, how much interest would that $69 have made you in that length of time?? Gun prices take a jump 2-3 times a year now, not once like in the 90's.

[ascast]

I think both are good deals, not steals, but good. I would buy them both if possible.

[country gent]

The brochardts are fine rifles and were ahead of their time in several ways. The $1500 asking price is not bad and in shape described should be fair. Unfortunately they arnt allowed in Most BPCR matches due to no hammer. But they are very accurate and dependable rifles. I Have a BRC reproduction in 45-70 thats very accurate and a ball to work with. The triggers are rough like most military rifles and can use some work

[marlinman93]

I would think carefully before I bought an antique collector's firearm. In 20 years will anyone care to buy those guns? I have a postage stamp collection. Nobody cares about postage stamps anymore.

Tim

I'd be more inclined to lay down my money on antique single shot rifles than I would on modern rifles, or postage stamps.
Modern rifles in 20 years may be highly regulated; even more so than they are today. Antique rifles are only regulated by one criteria in almost all but a couple wacky states. They require the buyer to be 18 yrs. old. No other paperwork required; not even in California.
When you want to buy or sell an antique firearm you simply buy or sell it without paperwork. That's one of the reasons (besides their historical value) that makes them so desirable, and so valuable.
And I heard similar comments 20 year ago to yours. In that 20 years the antique single shots I own have tripled in value. Even with them being a little down presently, they're still a better purchase than any modern firearm. In fact with prices off a bit today they're an excellent choice to buy.

[RustyReel]

I guess it depends on how old you are. At 71, I don't consider any of my current or future purchases to be investments. At least not long term investments.

Even if I were younger I think there are better investments than guns, unless you can afford truely investment quality pieces and then you can't really shoot or enjoy them.

Just an opinion.

[kootne]

Life is good if the biggest problem you have is what your plunder will be worth when you are dead.

[marlinman93]

I guess it depends on how old you are. At 71, I don't consider any of my current or future purchases to be investments. At least not long term investments.

Even if I were younger I think there are better investments than guns, unless you can afford truely investment quality pieces and then you can't really shoot or enjoy them.

Just an opinion.

I'm a year behind you, and never looked at my gun collecting interests as investments. But I disagree with them not being good investments. Most of my life I saved and invested money into guns, and the stock market. The stock market did well, but was zero fun. The guns did much better, and were tons of fun! Of course most of my collecting and buying was pre internet, and a lot of fun just tracking guns down, and then shooting them too.
I have what I feel are a number of investment quality, high end guns, and there's nothing I wont shoot. Shooting a very expensive gun never hurts it's value. Remember they were all likely shot before we got them, and the only difference between a common gun, and a minty gun is how much, and how well cared for after shooting.
If I had it to do all over again not a single dime would have gone into the stock market. It would have all gone into fine firearms, which would have made me money, and made me happier.

[dtknowles]

I'd be more inclined to lay down my money on antique single shot rifles than I would on modern rifles, or postage stamps.
Modern rifles in 20 years may be highly regulated; even more so than they are today. Antique rifles are only regulated by one criteria in almost all but a couple wacky states. They require the buyer to be 18 yrs. old. No other paperwork required; not even in California.
When you want to buy or sell an antique firearm you simply buy or sell it without paperwork. That's one of the reasons (besides their historical value) that makes them so desirable, and so valuable.
And I heard similar comments 20 year ago to yours. In that 20 years the antique single shots I own have tripled in value. Even with them being a little down presently, they're still a better purchase than any modern firearm. In fact with prices off a bit today they're an excellent choice to buy.

Since you have invested in the stock market then you know the standard disclaimer "past performance doesn't guarantee future results." I was just indicating that the trend is less young people shooting single shots, less collectors of antique firearms. There was a bit of a renaissance with the Black Powder Cartridge and Cowboy comps and interest but I think it is going to wane over the next two decades. Look what happened to metallic silhouettes. They will hold their value better than modern firearms which seem to have little appreciation since new and cheaper models seem to come out all the time.

Tim

[koger]

I will add to this thread. I have a niche, I trade in, the old single shots, the better quality traditional ML's, custom ML's, and F class/Varmint/Benchrest rifles. Of the 3 classes, I have made a lot of money, the last 2 years, off of younger folks getting into trad ML rifles. They are getting harder to find, and prices are on the upswing. I have sold a lot to folks in Wisconsin, Maine, Michigan and Minesota, along with several in southern states. By and large, the most folks buying them are preppers. They can make black powder easily, and with 7000 grains per#, shooting a .45 or .50 ml, with45 or 50 grains or less for small game, and 75 to 90 for large game, is very frugal. I have a pretty dang extensive clientele, who will buy every good condition TC, Traditions, and CVA I can get my hands on, for a premium price. Same thing with Single shot rifles, easy to load for with minimum outlay of cash, and they can mold their own bullets. Just my experience.

[marlinman93]

The lack of interest in antique guns by younger people reflects the lack of interest in guns at all by the younger crowd. And the lack of funds to spend on older guns in general is reflective of the values these older guns have reached. A young person on today's wages looks at a $1500 gun and has a tough time coming up with $1500, and then finds out they have to learn to reload for it, and buy all the equipment to do that also. That usually turns them off, and they go buy a cheaper .22 or CF rifle or handgun, and buy over the counter ammo.
But the same group isn't investing in the stock market either. Those who invest in old guns, or the stock market are usually in their 40's or older.
But that doesn't mean the values died on these guns; it means those who still buy them are simply not usually in their 20's or 30's. They're middle age or later, and have the finances, and knowledge to own them. That's nothing new. I too didn't own, or have the money to buy them in my 20's, but by my 30's I had the interest in them, and had already begun to reload for my guns. By my late 30's I finally was making enough to afford some inexpensive examples, and later gradually got into higher quality.
Around my area ML rifles don't seem to have much interest unless they're original antique rifles. Even custom built high quality copies have no resale value compared to what they cost new. And the lower value ML rifles wont get 50% of their new price when they go up for sale.
I've had a Ron Scott Vincent half stock for sale for over 2 yrs. and only had two people walk by my tables and even know what it was. Both were excited, and knew it was a $3,000 gun new, but said they couldn't afford it at 2/3 of the new price. So it sits in my safe still, and I only take it back out for another try at selling every few months.

[koger]

Also, I will add, here in Guntucky, Kentucky, we are a gun loving/shooting/hunting population in general. I have been seeing a lot of younger guys, 25=30 years old, who are doing well with good jobs, investing in shooting any type of rifle, that is accurate. Some are shooting the precision rimfire matches, some in informal F class type shoots, and I have quite a few local guys are into Single shot rifles, about 14 who shoot them, all handload, and most are dang good shots, due mainly to shooting a lot, and striving to shoot every shot accurately. I post some shooting results that most don't believe, but when you shoot a rifle, 6 days a week, from 10-30 shots per day, it pays off in the results. I have some young single guys, who are so serious about shooting, that they will live on bologna 2x a day, and cereal for breakfast, to make sure they have enough of quality shooting components. And it shows when they shoot in competition. Shooting well in competition fuels them to be even more serious about their shooting. I have been tutoring some of them in offhand, ML shooting, and it has been a eye opener for them, to get used to the follow thru needed when shooting offhand caplock of flintlock.