guys, I need to know about sizing .38 bullets down to 9mm

[la5676]

I've used the lee hand size die.

I've looked all over LEE's site. What is this Lee hand size die? Pics please. Do they even make it anymore, not that I want one.

[caffe]

Just never heard it called a Lee hand sizing die. What I think you have is a Lee push thru die, which mounts in any press, but ain't gonna mount in your 1000. There is no place to put the push pin, the 1000 uses a plate.

Is this what you have?
Attachment 262904

And you are hitting the head of the push rod, but it transmits the smack inertia to the body of the boolit. Law of physics and all ya know.

yeah, but since the bullet's in the die, there's no place for it to obture. obture means "swellling" and in bullet nomenclature, it means swelling as to diameter, which is impossible when it's inside of the die.

[la5676]

yeah, but since the bullet's in the die, there's no place for it to obture. obture means "swellling" and in bullet nomenclature, it means swelling as to diameter, which is impossible when it's inside of the die.

It's not completely in the die before you whack it, or you wouldn't have to whack it. If it is completely in the die, there is no need to size. It's in the throat of the die.

[caffe]

I"ve still not heard anything about the lead that's displaced into a ring around the edge of the .358" OD bullet's base? Has that happened to you guys? is it an accuracy problem? If water quenching helps THIS much, as to hardness, I dunno why anyone would ever add any antimony or tin to a lead casting alloy. WOW.

[la5676]

a subsequent post to yours has a picture of the lee bullet sizer die.

That is the LEE push through die everyone is referring to in this thread. Never heard it called a hand sizer die. It has threads on it, intended to be mounted in a press, either mounted or the hand press I also posted above.

[caffe]

It's not completely in the die before you whack it, or you wouldn't have to whack it. If it is completely in the die, there is no need to size. It's in the throat of the die.

I see what you mean, cause there's gotta be clearance to let the pushrod move. That makes sense. Thanks.

[caffe]

I might wind up having to buy a single stage press. Does anyone know if the lee 1000 progressive can size 223 brass? I've heard it both ways. They sell it "set up" for 223.

[la5676]

I"ve still not heard anything about the lead that's displaced into a ring around the edge of the .358" OD bullet's base? Has that happened to you guys? is it an accuracy problem? If water quenching helps THIS much, as to hardness, I dunno why anyone would ever add any antimony or tin to a lead casting alloy. WOW.

No, never had your issue of the ring you are getting, but I don't use a hammer. I have pushed .362 cast boolits through my .358 "hand sizer die" as you will, and still don't get a ring. I think you need to wait on a press and try that.

And, you are using way too hard an alloy of lead for 9mm, IMHO. Holy gawd, that is hard, man. Straight COWW is all I have ever used for 45 years. I've only recently started to PC, but haven't changed the alloy.

[la5676]

I might wind up having to buy a single stage press. Does anyone know if the lee 1000 progressive can size 223 brass? I've heard it both ways. They sell it "set up" for 223.

.223 is about the limit of the 1000. Just lube them well. I use the 1000 on for all my pistol loading, love it.

[caffe]

if the 1000 will size 223 cases, I'm elated. I didn't do anything to harden the ww alloy, other than if the water drop did so. i agree that it's way too hard and that might be causing the ring of displaced lead, and so might the mallet process. It appears that I'll either have to buy a sizer luber or the single station press for sizing the bullets. Crud!

[megasupermagnum]

Ok, it looks like we need a clarification.

So you ONLY have a Pro1000 press and nothing else? Lee also makes a hand press, shown in post #6 that works great for sizing bullets. Lee just came out with a new press called the APP, and can be seen here. https://leeprecision.com/deluxe-app-press.html This is a fantastic tool for processing both bullets and brass.

The next thing is your nomenclature for the sizing dies is off. Lee makes two styles of sizing dies, and while I have done it too, neither is designed to be used with a mallet. They are designed to be used in a press, and the press needs to be able to accept shell holders for the push rod to mount in. The Pro1000 can not be used to size bullets. I'm going to guess that you are using the older style bullet sizing kit, seen here. https://leeprecision.com/bullet-cast...et-sizing-kit/

Lee also makes a new style called the Breech Lock sizing kit. The difference here is that instead of buying a $25 die for every size, you buy the breech lock body, and change the size with $12 bushings. Prices are lower from most other sources. This kit can bee seen here. https://leeprecision.com/breech-lock-bullet-sizing-kit/

The next thing I would like to address is that you seem reluctant to load normally because you are afraid of leading. First of all, I can promise you lead fouling is not that bad. It comes out easy with a couple tricks. Secondly, there is no magical limit that causes leading. You can load 9mm to it's limits and have a load that shoots clean. Provided your barrel is not rougher than a cob, all you need is a decent lube (Lee Alox works well), reasonable alloy (anything from 20:1 to linotype should be no problem for 9mm), and third and most important is the bullet needs to seal the barrel. There are many different ways to go about this, the most common is to size .002" over groove diameter of the barrel. Some size to the throat. Some use a softer bullet and hope it bumps up with pressure. A hard bullet like you are using is ok if it starts large enough, but is the worst possible scenario if it is too small. Along with sizing the bullets correctly, you need to make sure your brass is not sizing them down. Most of the time you can get away fine, but sometimes you need to use an oversized expander plug to flare the brass.

Hopefully we are on the same page now. Getting back you your sizing die. The die is tapered most of the way, which is why they work so well. The part that actually sizes the bullet is very short on a Lee die. When you use a mallet, you are smashing the bullet to fit the tapered section, and by continuing to force it, eventually getting it through the die. These dies really do need to be used in a press. If you had an arbor press, that could work, even a bench vice could work, although slowly. I would recommend buying the Lee APP press.

You also mentioned the sizing die finning the base. This is to be expected, as the push rod is smaller than the die. Normally the bullet pushes through with minimal force, and this is no problem. When you are forcing it through, the lead has nowhere else to go. This will greatly effect accuracy, and unless you really needed them, would be best re melted.

[megasupermagnum]

I"ve still not heard anything about the lead that's displaced into a ring around the edge of the .358" OD bullet's base? Has that happened to you guys? is it an accuracy problem? If water quenching helps THIS much, as to hardness, I dunno why anyone would ever add any antimony or tin to a lead casting alloy. WOW.

Water quenching only effects certain alloys. In your typical clip on wheel weight metal, there are four main types of metals that make up the alloy. Lead, tin, antimony, and very slight amount of arsenic. It has been said the arsenic is the key to quench hardening, although I've heard that a antimony alone can do it too. This would be a question for a metallurgist. Your classic Lead/Tin only, or pure lead will NOT quench harden in the slightest. Further, Tin does wonderous things to an alloy. If equaled with antimony, the two will bond together, and produces a much more ductile alloy. An alloy that is only lead and antimony is terribly brittle. OK for target work, but not the best for hunting.

[caffe]

thanks. SOMETHING has made my bullets harder than the hubs of hell. The ingots also wont mark with a thumb nail. So I'll see about adding some of the soft lead when I cast in quantity.

[megasupermagnum]

thanks. SOMETHING has made my bullets harder than the hubs of hell. The ingots also wont mark with a thumb nail. So I'll see about adding some of the soft lead when I cast in quantity.

You water quenched them, which is why they are hard. This is not the end of the world. In fact this makes them less prone to damage during handling. All that you need to do is make sure that you are sizing them, such that they are larger than the barrel, yet still function. Some guys don't even measure, and size the largest that will still fit in the chamber. Many calibers you can get away with a standard sizing if you will, for example .311" for 30 calibers. The problem with 9mm in particular is that the barrels have been made all over the map. I've seen guys sizing from .355" all the way to .359". If I had to start somewhere, I would size .357", which should work in the majority of the pistols out there.

[Bazoo]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...pan-lubing-kit

The sizer has a rod and die body like the current production and is made for mallet use. No longer in production. No threads.

Dumb question, are you using the die body upside down? The one I've used the bullet dropped in the body flush with the top and then you whacked it through.

[la5676]

There are many different ways to go about this, the most common is to size .002" over groove diameter of the barrel. Some size to the throat. Some use a softer bullet and hope it bumps up with pressure. A hard bullet like you are using is ok if it starts large enough, but is the worst possible scenario if it is too small. Along with sizing the bullets correctly, you need to make sure your brass is not sizing them down. Most of the time you can get away fine, but sometimes you need to use an oversized expander plug to flare the brass.

Can a guy do this without a micrometer? Asking for a friend of course.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

My 9mm's all function with bullets sized to .358.

[RU shooter]

You maybe getting that finning on the bottom of the 150 bullet because it's being sized down a lot more than you think , what size is it dropping out of the mould? And what are you sizing it down to ? Just because it's a .358 mould don't mean it's .358 dia as cast. And as has been said you don't need hard alloy for 9mm add that soft lead in

[tomme boy]

I have gone from 0.361" down to 0.356" in one pass and never got any flashing. Use the proper tools in the way they are designed and you will not have any problem.

Reading the instructions is going to be the first thing you need to do. Then ask if you have any questions. You have already set yourself up for failure the way you are proceeding. And get the right tools, that would help.

[la5676]

if the 1000 will size 223 cases, I'm elated. I didn't do anything to harden the ww alloy, other than if the water drop did so. i agree that it's way too hard and that might be causing the ring of displaced lead, and so might the mallet process. It appears that I'll either have to buy a sizer luber or the single station press for sizing the bullets. Crud!

I've got a couple Lyman 450's that I'd love to make someone a deal on, don't use them much anymore, mostly went to PC, but that isn't gonna do you much good on TL boolits.