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Thread: A Couple of Hybrids

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    A Couple of Hybrids

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    Upgrading some actions: 16 Oviedo and unknown Carcano. Both fun projects; one rather easy the other a little more involved. If anyone is interested in specifics I'll be glad to provide.

    RE the Carcano, what best in-line magazine to use for 308-358? Or anything else save the 30 Russian. I'd love 458 SOCOM as I have a 45 cal barrel. It seems a 93 mauser guard is the best option to provide enough space to try and fit a mag into with obvious modifications. A 98 guard has poor trigger geometry accommodation.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    The carcano wins the attention. I have more time in finding a mag as I have in all the physical work done so far. Of course, that ratio will change. Colt/Sauer mag.:

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    '93 mauser guard modifications:

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    Fit to butchered stock:

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    I was determined to make an over-center scope mount. Found a steel picatinny for cheap made for Rem. 700 which is almost the same ring diameter as a carcano, a little milling and welding and more milling and drilling:

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    I think Mr. Caracano thought the army was populated by children and midgets. I'm set on doing several of these so I need an actual human-sized stock to either make my own glass and/or resin stocks or perhaps have someone duplicate my pattern. Added hardwood aft for to screw a pad onto and some silhouettes out of 1/8" door skin to Bondo to:

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    Make it so the Bondo additions don't peel off and a batter for the profile at the butt out of a yogurt lid:

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    Later on:

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  3. #3
    Boolit Master


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    Dude, I think you need a hobby!! (Oh, wait...)
    Lead Forever!


    The 2nd amendment was never intended to allow private citizens to 'keep and bear arms.' If it had, there would have been wording such as 'the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. -Ken Konecki, July 27, 1992

    John Galt was here.

    "Politics is the art of postponing an answer until it is no longer relevant". (From the movie 'Red Tails')

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Are those all small ring Mauser actions standing in your rack ?

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gewehr-Guy View Post
    Are those all small ring Mauser actions standing in your rack ?
    Mostly, along with two LR and two SR Mexicans and a couple that are stock.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master 444ttd's Avatar
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    ...drool......drool.......thats a alot of 93's, you have there!!!! i mean, the 93's aren't safe and you had better get rid of them. i can help you. all you have to do is send the 93's to my addre...i mean....the address provided. you will be safe in the knowledge that the 93's are buil...i mean...melted down into paperclips.

    very nice rifles!!!!! i have two 93 oviedo mausers(next project), a chilean mauser action, two springfield armory actions and a 98 mauser (i am finishing the stock with lin-speed oil). i'm glad to see at least somebody knows that the 93 spanish mauser actions are being built.
    Ad Reipublicae his Civitatum Foederatarum Americae, ego sum fortis et libero. Ego autem non exieris ad impios communistarum socialismi. Ora imagines in vestri demented mentem, quod vos mos have misericordia, quia non.

    To the Republic of these United States of America, I am strong and free. I will never surrender to godless communist socialism. Pray to images in your demented mind, that you will have mercy, because i will not.

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  7. #7
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    This is my kind of thread. Are Colt Sauer mags common and affordable? Neat solution, I'm excited to see more.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    Mostly '95's

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    Lot's of Rem 700 barrels, a 770, a Shaw, A&B's and some reworked originals.

    There are other things that needs be done to fit the Sauer mag (yes, hard to come by and NEVER cheap but I've not found a single stack that looks like it would work better or at all) and I've yet to come up with the latch system. I will post some pics of what I did. This whole thing is more-or-less a proof of concept thing and there are many things I'll do differently next time. I think the Sauer mags could be modified for .338 Fed or .358 Win. Been forever looking for either barrel on the cheap.

    These have all been test fired but not taken to the range. Some of the barrels will need to be reclocked as I didn't hit the Rem iron sight screw holes but I'm thinking I'd better find out if they're worth a hoot before I get too carried away!

  9. #9
    Boolit Master 444ttd's Avatar
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    i got........98 mauser(i'm finishing the stock), 95 chilean and two springfield (krag) actions. i think i have one of two 93 spanish mausers somewhere in my files.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_20190529_144229.jpg   IMG_20200709_144307.jpg   IMG_20200714_095812.jpg  
    Ad Reipublicae his Civitatum Foederatarum Americae, ego sum fortis et libero. Ego autem non exieris ad impios communistarum socialismi. Ora imagines in vestri demented mentem, quod vos mos have misericordia, quia non.

    To the Republic of these United States of America, I am strong and free. I will never surrender to godless communist socialism. Pray to images in your demented mind, that you will have mercy, because i will not.

    MOLON LABE

  10. #10
    Boolit Master 444ttd's Avatar
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    daaaaaaa......found it
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_20190617_140846.jpg  
    Ad Reipublicae his Civitatum Foederatarum Americae, ego sum fortis et libero. Ego autem non exieris ad impios communistarum socialismi. Ora imagines in vestri demented mentem, quod vos mos have misericordia, quia non.

    To the Republic of these United States of America, I am strong and free. I will never surrender to godless communist socialism. Pray to images in your demented mind, that you will have mercy, because i will not.

    MOLON LABE

  11. #11
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    Probably un findable but one never knows- what about JapTalian bottom metal from the Carcano/Arisaka hybrid rifle made for Japan in Italy? No telling ,but someone with both type Carcano rifles could look.....

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    Probably un findable but one never knows- what about JapTalian bottom metal from the Carcano/Arisaka hybrid rifle made for Japan in Italy? No telling ,but someone with both type Carcano rifles could look.....
    Texas, as it happens I have five Type I Carcanos, none collectable. Now you bring up a whole nother story that I've been pondering for some time! Much rarer but sooo much more desirable: flat bolt face with a larger diameter (any standard cartridge will work without modification, no strange annular groove), a mauser type staggered feed magazine and an ejector straight down the bolt which, seems to me, makes a smoother action 'feel' that is subjective, of course. Also, to my purpose, the bolt handle is further forward which makes the '98 conversion easier welding set-up wise. They were made in 1938-39 thus more desirable, metallurgically. My efforts to make other cartridges feed reliably have been a failure. The 6.5x50 jap is semi-rimmed and the mag box is blown out aft because. The follower is shaped uniquely to accommodate, too. However, I looks like a guy could make a Ruger American mag work. All of this is, and can only be, after I get this right - or nail it on the wall of STUPID (but fun).

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by 444ttd View Post
    i got........98 mauser(i'm finishing the stock), 95 chilean and two springfield (krag) actions. i think i have one of two 93 spanish mausers somewhere in my files.
    444, What are those actions in the bottom pic?

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    Oh, BTW here is the thread I started over at the competitor that backfills some info but ya know, this place is more comfortable even though I had to buy more bandwidth to post pics. There were some over there that weren't happy.

    https://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...791-Carmoucano

  15. #15
    Boolit Master 444ttd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperlake View Post
    444, What are those actions in the bottom pic?
    the first one is my 98 mauser with a bishop stock, it will be a richards gunstock that i am lin-speed oiling it.
    http://rifle-stocks.com/ black walnut wolverine

    the second is my 95 chilean action and the third is my 1898 springfield armory actions( i have to build bolts and all the other stuff).
    Ad Reipublicae his Civitatum Foederatarum Americae, ego sum fortis et libero. Ego autem non exieris ad impios communistarum socialismi. Ora imagines in vestri demented mentem, quod vos mos have misericordia, quia non.

    To the Republic of these United States of America, I am strong and free. I will never surrender to godless communist socialism. Pray to images in your demented mind, that you will have mercy, because i will not.

    MOLON LABE

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    A very useful tool for this kind of Bondo work is a little spokeshave. There is a period when the chemical reaction of hardening is progressing that works to one's advantage in that the polyester carves beautifully thus eliminating much sanding, which is unpleasant. Depending on how much catalyst is used, this period is only measured in minutes.

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    After several applications, I have a reasonable shape that I'm going to stop here at. Unless one glassed over the shape with fine cloth or chopped strand matt, this would not be an acceptable method to make a hunting rifle stock as bondo has too little strength though it would be fine on a bench.

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    I'm stopping here with the stock because the forend needs lengthened and am waiting for the barrel to show up. I want to test fire it before getting too, too into. In terms of things I could continue with, I'm debating the best way to approach a firing pin. I started by reprofiling a '93 pin to duplicate the carcano but I'm also contemplating using the carcano. The carcano 'stops' against the bolt head and the mauser against the bolt shroud - I think? If anyone definitively knows that detail I'd be obliged. Stock '93 pin is at bottom of pic.

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  17. #17
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    I altered a lot of patterns to use on a duplicating machine. After awhile, the bondo will crack and fall off, mostly due to the shrinking and swelling of the wood as the seasons change.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    I altered a lot of patterns to use on a duplicating machine. After awhile, the bondo will crack and fall off, mostly due to the shrinking and swelling of the wood as the seasons change.
    waksupi, thanks so much for that information! I did a lot of research about that duplication process and I learned that a lot of people were not happy with the results with rather violent reactions to some vendors that claimed that ability. My current thinking (I've wanted to do this for some time) is to either make a mold using what I can make out of this to either cast urethane or epoxy resin or lay up glass with epoxy or polyester resins. I've talked a lot with the folks at Smooth-on about it and they told me they have people that have done it successfully using their products. In any case, the plan is to completely seal what I have with a penetrating epoxy like GetRot and then System III epoxy to get a glass-like finish to take a mold off of it. I have quite a bit of mold making experience using various casting plasters, RTV silicone's and urethane's from my art days.

    What I haven't been able to find is a lot of information from people that have done DIY. And, with few exceptions, what I have found didn't float my boat.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    So while waiting for the barrel I'll work as I can on other things, the stock receding in importance as it will shoot. I've been avoiding this but now have started lengthening the firing pin. Avoiding it because I didn't know how to go about it. I stuck a drill the right size through a bit of plasticine to get a length of what was extant when all was assembled, need .410" + pin protrusion. Turns out, a 21/64" drill was almost the exact diameter of the stock '93 pin. After annealing the drill bit, I milled a flat to it and I had this jig already for to weld it up. I'm going at it one step at a time: the bit to one part, cut and finish mill to length than add the last part. Add some length, as I'd rather remove the pin tip than guess what. As one can see, it's set up for a full-pen weld.

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  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    After a lot of head scratching and fits and starts it came together, sort of. It functions as it should but will need further tuning to make it more than just acceptable. I had to reduce the length of the cocking piece sear engagement by about 80 thou and lower the sear around 50. The reductions were necessary because in the first case, too much cocking was happening on closing and in the second, it just didn't work. The sear needs to be really worked over because there is too much drag during initial cocking; will duplicate the mauser's profile. It looks like I was successful in firing pin LOA (Yay!).

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    Now here's a thing that I was completely unaware of: turns out the FN bolt blank has a different clearance for either the cocking piece or the bolt shroud. My guess is the shroud in order to reduce lock time. In this pic one can see the rather large gap between the bolt body cocking notch and the cocking piece, muy malo! That causes too much rotational slop so the bolt does not 'glide' home and hits obliquely the cocking piece slot in the receiver. Another thing to figure. I have an Interarms MK X that I'll try the shroud/cocking piece assembly. Anyone that knows, please weigh in...

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    And today, the barrel showed up: an aftermarket used Rem 700 .308. Man, disappointed as the concentricity between the outer and inner is horrific! Anyway, here it is in the lathe with tenon turned ready to thread and chamber. Approx. 1" removed and still lots 'o meat.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check