Range factory brass lengths all over the place

[Tokarev]

Long time ago I was shooting next to a gentleman who came to sight in his brand-new rifle for the coming season.
Seeing how he swept all of his fired cases onto the ground, I asked if he reloaded. He shook his head, and I ended up picking all of his brass.
He fired 2x boxes of Winchester 30-06, one box was nickel and the other was brass.

Last night I prepped all of that brass, which I kept in a separate bag. When trimming to length, I had about 1/3 of cases that were extra long and 2/3 which the cutter did not even touch.
This comes as a contrast with the brass which I fire. It always extends very slightly but consistently, and if I trim, I do by the equal amount across the board.

Can anyone explain what happened? Why do cases out of the same box, fired out of the same rifle, differ in length so much? Or does Winchester ammunition come in lengths all over the place to begin with?

[1hole]

Welll ... commercial ammo is made for the "once and done" market because the vast majority of it is used exactly that way. If ammo cases were made to the precise tolerances of Swiss watches not many of us could afford them.

Does such small neck length differences really matter? Not much. But, who knows; if we had a $3K+ custom made B.R. rig and the shooting skills to use it, total neck length uniformity might tighten average groups by 5 thou or so.

Those who are apprehensive of the accuracy effects a few thou length differences might make in our common factory rifles and chambers may trim cases to whatever neck length seems good to them.

[44magLeo]

If you buy new brass from Winchester, Federal, Hornady, Remington or most any in that price range you will find the same thing.
Going with more expensive brass like Norma or Lapua you will find things are more consistent. That's why they cam charge so much for it.
For most of most folks shooting the less expensive brass with a bit of prep work shoots fine. If you get into serious target shooting, especially the long range variety then more prep work or the more expensive brass with as much prep work may pay off.
Me, I get the less expensive and do some prep work. Things like keeping one lot of brass together for the life of the brass. Trim to length as needed.
If I get once fired or range brass I sort by head stamp and if I feel real ambitious I'll sort by weight.
Most of what I own are average sporters and don't have the accuracy potential to be worth much effort on brass prep beyond the little I do.
Leo

[Three44s]

I put that kind of brass in a “someday pile”.

If I need it someday, I take the time to prep it. Until then, I use the brass I have already prepped.

Three44s

[Petrol & Powder]

I think that's par for the course.
Years ago I got several hundred once fired casings of 308 Win from the same lot (I had the factory boxes they came in) and that was some of the most inconsistent brass I've seen. Not only were the case lengths all over the map, the case weights were all over the map. I culled out the most consistent ones and set them aside. The rest was loaded and shot in semi-auto rifles; I didn't bother to recover it after it was shot.
That was a outlier. Most of the time I find some consistency within the same brand and lot. Not so much between manufacturers and lot numbers.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

To my way of thinking, this is where a trim die really shines. Just run the case into the die and file off everything that sticks out the top. De-burr and chamfer with two twists of the hand tool made for the purpose, and done.

DG

[1hole]

To my way of thinking, this is where a trim die really shines. Just run the case into the die and file off everything that sticks out the top. De-burr and chamfer with two twists of the hand tool made for the purpose, and done.

DG

Ditto. I've never understood why file trim dies died. I'm not parting with the few I have.

I don't know what length variation it takes to be "all over the place"; is that a +/- range of 10 thou or 1/4"?

I wouldn't like cases that are too long to chamber or so short the bullets would fall out but I've never seen any unmodified cases that far out of reason. ??

[1hole]

To my way of thinking, this is where a trim die really shines. Just run the case into the die and file off everything that sticks out the top. De-burr and chamfer with two twists of the hand tool made for the purpose, and done.

DG

Ditto. I've never understood why file trim dies died. I'm not parting with the few I have.

I don't know what length variation it takes to be "all over the place"; is that a +/- range of 10 thou or 1/4"?

I wouldn't like cases that are too long to chamber or so short the bullets would fall out but I've never seen any unmodified cases that far out of reason. ??

[Winger Ed.]

I had about 1/3 of cases that were extra long and 2/3 which the cutter did not even touch.

It's only a few thousandths, barely enough to mess up using roll crimps in the batch,
but all the mass produced/factory brass I've ever run across is like that.
I just find the shortest one, and trim the others to that.

Lay out some new factory ammo sometime and look at the crimps in the groove.
You'll usually be able to spot the different case lengths.

[fguffey]

Can anyone explain what happened? Why do cases out of the same box, fired out of the same rifle, differ in length so much? Or does Winchester ammunition come in lengths all over the place to begin with?

Who measures before and again after? I have chamber gages, case gages, and I have Wilson case gages. I have always been impressed with factory loaded cases. That includes the weight of the powder, bullet and case. I have been impressed with the condition of the cases when ejected.

There is no answer if you did not measure before.

Long cases; long cases are my favorite, I am talking about the length of the case from the shoulder of the case to the case head. I have purchased 1000's of once fired cases from shooting range, I had little use for short cases because I was loading for long chambers.

It seems it is impossible for reloaders to understand it is not possible to have cases lengthen from the shoulder to the case head and shorten from then end of the neck to the case head.

So what do I want? I want my necks to shorten and my case bodies to lengthen.

F. Guffey

[Bayou52]

OP -

That's not unusual. I only shoot reloaded range pick-ups.
Range pick-ups are going to be all over the place.

I treat them all as brass with unknown histories, inspect them closely and process them from beginning to end.

You just never know what you'll pick up.

Interestingly, just a few months ago, I picked up some 8mm brass. I was stunned to see the headstamp - dated 1938 with a Nazi eagle and insignia on the bottom. I wonder if that shooter knew what he was shooting and then leaving behind?

Bayou52