Is sub MOA possible with Cast ?

[glockky]

These are all 5 shot groups at 100yds out of my 357 maximum.

[Tripplebeards]

Two out of three rifles I’ve tried Cast in since I started casting three years ago have have shot MOA to sub MOA. The third one was stubborn and the best I could get were 1.1 inch groups. I’m sure I could’ve did better if I changed powders,boolits,and kept trying.

Here’s my tightest group to date at 100 yards with cast. I don’t use this load anymore and switched over to a softer 7.8bh alloy that shoots .8” groups at 1600 FPS. I switch scopes on the gun last year and sighted it in with the softer alloy. I actually shot a tighter group with them than the 80/20 below but never took a picture or measured it.




This is the first try with my 336 lever action chambered in 35 Rem a couple weeks ago with a 5 pound trigger at 100 yards. The top group was MOA. I lighten the trigger to 2 1/4 pounds I’m going to retest that load and I bet it tightens them up a little bit better.



And here is was first try at cast in my long gone 450 BM using 300 grain lee boolits at 2100 FPS.



I’ve learned that the gun needs to be able to shoot MOA or better to begin with with jacketed bullets, to have consistent/even crimp pressure, and to weigh my boolits within one grain and separate.

[popper]

Wolfdog, yes moa is possible with cast, probably NOT with 223 at any higher fps. Decent accuracy yes, dependable accuracy, probably not. You don't have the QA equipment to make or load those little 55 grainers to be accurate. You can have fun with 223 and cast, just don't expect too much. Try 22lr @ 100 for a while and you will understand. Now 30 cal and up, yes, not too much work.

[Larry Gibson]

Daytona tactical 5.56 upper ,FMK polymer lower, 1:7 twist, Nikon 3-9x40 buck master on top with a generic bipod.
Attachment 262776
Seems to handle the Hornady 75grain HPBT's I'm currently loading just fine

There are numerous threads on this forum detailing the trials and tribulations of those attempting any kind of usable accuracy, let alone sub-moa, with ARs and other fast twist rifles such as yours. It may be possible with 22LR ballistics but if you expect a sub-moa cast bullet load that functions the action.....good luck.

I would suggest that instead of investing time, money and a lot of frustration you spend the money on quality jacketed bullets and then enjoy the time with good shooting. If you really want to shoot cast bullets at sub-moa then numerous suggestions as to a proper cartridge and rifle to do it with have been made.

Not trying to hard nose you but just being honest with you. If it could be done with ARs we'd all be doing it...…...

[charlie b]

No, not all my groups are sub MOA

My first day back at the range after two months off. This was a bad day for me. I just had a hard time getting myself back in the groove. Targets fired from left to right. Left upper, left lower, etc.

I would try to say the bad groups were OK as 5 round and 'blew up' when I fired the other 5 (or 6 or 7). But, that would be lying Several I had a bad second or third round so even as 5rnd groups they were over 1".

I could also blame the 8-12mph wind, but, that wasn't it either. I watched myself pull shots, shoot before I was settled, bad breathing, bad trigger pulls. Just not a good day. The good thing is the new bullet showed some potential.

All of these except for one target are Lee 180gn powder coated. All but one are Varget at about 1850fps. The second from the left top row was IMR 4198 at about 1980fps (it is kind of my baseline load for this bullet). The bottom row second from left were my Accurate 311-210E bullets. First time out with them. Also Varget, about 1780fps.

PS there was some sight adjustments made from target to target.

PPS the top, third from left was 12 rounds.

PPPs Savage model 12, .308Win, 1:10 twist, 26" barrel.

[Larry Gibson]

But Charlie....that ain't no 1/7" twist AR 223...…..

[charlie b]

Larry, no it ain't

I have a 1:9 .223 bolt, but, it gets 77gn SMK's so I can shoot below 1/2MOA on most days If I want a load for the family I get the bulk 55gn fmj's. They are almost as cheap as the lead alloy I buy.

I've only been casting seriously for rifles for the last year. Cast many thousand pistol and ML bullets in past decades. Still would not try to cast for an AR unless I planned on it being a 'manual' action, or, I just wanted to throw bullets down range, like a lot of guys around here do with their ARs. One of these days I might try casting for my Garand, but, adding in a gas action restricts the parameters, making load development tougher. Just like most in here are saying.

IMHO, cast in rifles really, really shines with reduced velocity loads, and heavy for caliber loads.

[444ttd]

jeez, you only hit the red part about 4 times!!!!


those are sub deer loads, i use them.

[MT Chambers]

One shortcut to moa with cast is to get a .30 br. with a custom barrel, Jewel trigger, and a few Eagan molds. In CBA benchrest comp. this is the ticket.

[kokomokid]

One shortcut to moa with cast is to get a .30 br. with a custom barrel, Jewel trigger, and a few Eagan molds. In CBA benchrest comp. this is the ticket.

I can get Eagan copies but original nose pours are a bit rare here.

[charlie b]

jeez, you only hit the red part about 4 times!!!!


those are sub deer loads, i use them.

Yep, chasing the red spot is next for these. After I get a load I like then it is red dot time, and compiling a DOPE table.



If I hunted I'd use them as is

One shortcut to moa with cast is to get a .30 br. with a custom barrel, Jewel trigger, and a few Eagan molds. In CBA benchrest comp. this is the ticket.

The Accurate 311-210E bullet used above is the Eagan design.

[Tripplebeards]

I went out today with my Marlin 336 after I lightened the trigger from 5 pounds to 2 1/4 and use the same 40 g of varget with my cast hollowpoint group buy boolit. Heres the first three rounds I shot out my gun today at 100 yards...



Goes to show you a lighter trigger shrinks groups.

I also tried H4895. I only had enough powder for three rounds as I was basically out. I knew the pressure was similar to the 40 grain Varget loading so I rolled the dice and loaded three up at max j word book load...

100 yards...

[waksupi]

Ten shot groups, or it didn't happen!

[Shuz]

I settle for 5 shot groups.

[444ttd]

1 shot group!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tripplebeards]

Lol... On my property I can’t get three shots at a deer if I tried...because it’s dead with the first shot. Three shot groups are good enough for this kid to see if I have a load worth using. I guess if I was a bench rest target shooter and I had a $20,000 custom rifle I’d worry about 20 shot groups to brag about. I do shoot a wheel gun full at a time to check my POA.

[robg]

308 and 45-70 are relativly easy to find a cast load for .357mag in a rifle takes a bit more effort. now 223 is frustrating to say the least ,ive put that to one side before i throw my toys out of the pram.

[dverna]

Lol... On my property I can’t get three shots at a deer if I tried...because it’s dead with the first shot. Three shot groups are good enough for this kid to see if I have a load worth using. I guess if I was a bench rest target shooter and I had a $20,000 custom rifle I’d worry about 20 shot groups to brag about. I do shoot a wheel gun full at a time to check my POA.

A three shot group will demonstrate if you have a poor load. It might indicate if you have a good load.

BTW, think about why all the MOA "guarantees" are based on three shot groups. It is easy to get a MOA 3 shot group if you shoot enough groups.

[M-Tecs]

Agreed that the standard production rifles with accuracy guarantees are based on 3 shot groups.

When you start moving up the scale some use 5 shot groups and the groups are 1/2 MOA or 1/4 MOA.

https://www.lesbaer.com/website/ar223.html

they perform like no other AR on the planet - in fact, all models are guaranteed to shoot 1/2" MOA groups! Included with each gun is a target with two five-shot groups shot at 100 yards.

All Cooper rifles up to .338 caliber depart the factory with a half-minute accuracy guarantee but I believe that is a 3 shoot group.

https://www.accurateshooter.com/guns...ek/gunweek017/

1/4 MOA Accuracy Guaranteed by Builder Clay Spencer it's a 3 shoot group and custom.

[MT Chambers]

I feel that when starting out, try dif. boolits until you find the most accurate, then work on dif. powders/primers. Some guns/barrels won't shoot a certain boolit no matter what, but it may excel in another barrel. So nail down the boolit first!!!