Quickload, and the 50 Beowulf whats the deal?

[xacex]

All of the Alexander Arms data is really low pressure according to quickloads. For example the 335 FP rainier is 16K psi with 37.7 grains of lil gun which AA shows as a max load. The Beo is pressure tested to 33K. What am I missing? I have noticed my cast loads do well at around 21K psi. I get pressure signs at about 28K. Even the velocity is lower than they list for a 24 inch barrel by about 200 fps. Does the Beo just not work well with Quickload? I was hoping this was the answer for load development with the Beo, and I still can use it with what I have observed, but I just find it odd that AA published data that is so low pressure. It is probably not a good idea to use Lil gun at those pressures.
Here is another one. My Lee 440 load is 30.5 grains Lil gun which I get a velocity of 1535 FPS according to my chrono, but Quickload says I should only get 1355 FPS, and the PSI is only 15,799 PSI. This FEELS stout, and I would not want to go to far up from this, but the numbers seem way off.

[FLYCUTTER]

I also wish there was more data for the wulf.

[xacex]

I am to the point I am making my own data, but I would like to have a little more knowledge on why I am keeping my pressures below 22K PSI vs the advertised max pressure, and why quickload says one load may be 15K PSI, but does not feel like a load I could, or would want to go up on. With cast boolits I have to kind of blaze new territory with this cartridge using data that is out there as the reference. If there are settings that I can change to make it more accurate I would gladly make the changes. Quickload has been accurate with several other calibers, and others have had this problem just from a search on the net. I cannot just take the information as fact, I have to understand what is going on so I know what is safe, and why.

[xacex]

After puting in several loads that have been listed by Alexander Arms, and other sources I have found that lil gun, H110/W296 loads are topping out about 16 to 20k max. Reloader 7 loads go much further all the way up to about 32K. I found 2 load that are out there including one from AA that shows over pressure. Both of those loads were for Barnes bullets, and Accurate 1680. One that was listed shows a pressure of 68,456 PSI. Do not use 43.4 grains of 1680 behind a Barnes 375 XPB! This load is out there on the net on a list of tested and tried loads, and a great example of why you need to confirm your loads.

[Greg S]

I've had a 50 Beo for a couple of years now. I picked it up for kicking around use to replace a 45-70 or other heavy when kicking around in the woods. It is a good stopping caliber for a semi auto levergun. I think the big reason for the lower pressures are the fragile bolt lugs. The bolt face is opened up from 223 to 7.62 x 39. RL7 is the way to go with the Barnes 375s on trimmed

[xacex]

I've had a 50 Beo for a couple of years now. I picked it up for kicking around use to replace a 45-70 or other heavy when kicking around in the woods. It is a good stopping caliber for a semi auto levergun. I think the big reason for the lower pressures are the fragile bolt lugs. The bolt face is opened up from 223 to 7.62 x 39. RL7 is the way to go with the Barnes 375s on trimmed

Greg, ya the pressure of 33k is low, but 16K? What i think it is from my experience is the pressure signs with these powders at a lower pressure. I am really thinking RL-7 is the way to go for the Beo. I am topped out at 23k before pressure signs with W296. As you mentioned the bolt is the weak link so any pressure signs at all and you are probably at the limit of what the bolt can handle even if it is at the lower pressure. It is strange though to get pressure signs at the lower pressure. Difference in burn rates I imagine. Fast igniting powders are building up the peak pressure quicker while the bolt is locked.

[leftiye]

Sounds like the powders are having/causing too fast of a pressure rise/curve. I've seen .45 Colt cases split when the pressure rise from a faster powder stretched the brass too rapidly (not a fast powder, but faster than say H110). The Ruger only loads with magnum powders would go to much higher pressures without splitting the brass in the same chamber. This isn't about pressure per se, but about the brass itself and whether it can take stretching at the given rate. Further, in the AR platform, any gas escaping from brass with a leak can/could be disastrous.

[xacex]

That is kind of the conclusion I am coming to Leftiye. Looking through the data I noticed the pressure curve was much faster, and sharper with powders such as H110. It peaks at approximately .5 inch of travel, vs .7 or .8 with a powder such as RL-7, or RL-10x. It looks like there are better powders available for the Beo than H110/W296, 1680, or Lil gun. The trick is to get the brass to expand at the mouth and grab the chamber wall while doing so before the bolt lugs disengage. Seams easy from the outside, but there are only a few powders that will allow the pressure to build later so you can achieve a higher pressure without showing over pressure signs with the large pistol primer. I went through dozens of powders and it seems there are really only three suitable powders the two mentioned earlier, and Vihtavuori N120. Looks like I need to do some shopping and actually try some of these other choices.

[SOFMatchstaff]

Interesting discussion, and I have gone thru the same growing pains with my "Babywoof". Picture the thunder sabre with a Long throat, made from 50AE cases. 16''AR platform, std carbine gas length, Heavy buffer weight, custom heavy upper receiver . I can equal the Beo in most weights up to 350gr with a number of powders you have discussed, didnt like the really heavy projos.

What I found after some issues with bullet jump on feeding and chambering, and the erratic pressure indicators was the neck tension had to be real aggressive as the plated bullets from Berrys and others were .499+- and you cant get a decent taper crimp. Had a few pull slightly in the magazine too. The dies had a lot to do with the problem too, RCBS sent me 3 different size dies, Lee's are iffy(stuck cases!!) finally set up the swage-o-Matic with a set of home built dies and punches at .502 and bumped up the Berrys 300 and 350s and the problems started to disappear. I used a 1/2" ball bearing in the bottom of the die to push an indent up from the bottom and kinda give it a bit of a slight hollow base. tried several styles of nose punches to keep the ogive close to original, will work on that later...

What this boils down to in my mind is the Beo and my woof cant be crimped as aggressively as say a 44mag in a revolver to hold the bullet jump down while the powders get to burning as they are supposed too. I no longer get the scorched case mouths after using the .502 bullets and still can scorch em with the looser .499s using the same load data. I know this deviates some from the main gist of the thread, but it cant hurt to have more information.

[xacex]

Interesting you mention scorched case mouths. I noticed it went from a large area down the brass with jacketed as you have found, to slight with cast that have been powder coated after sizing. true .502 dimensions on the bullet made the difference, and allows for neck tension without relying on a crimp. Interesting solution to bump up the size of plated bullets.

I load my boolits close to the lands as possible to reduce the pressure drop from the jump, but some say this is not a safe practice because you are building pressure to fast. Problem is with these ball type powders you need the pressure for a consistent burn, and in the case of Lil gun if you do not have the pressure you can get a secondary explosion.

[dhopson]

I am just starting to load cast boolits for my Beowulf. I have the Lee 440 you spoke of at the start of this thread. Does the 30.5 gn load of Lil' Gun work for you? What is your OAL?

So far, all I have loaded is the Berry's 350 PRS with 33 gns of Lil' Gun, and it works great. I use the same load behind the 350 XTP (as published). This gives me a great practice round without shooting up the expensive XTP. The heavy cast boolits should be a hoot. Thanks for the thread.

[Vettepilot]

Old thread I know, but it seemed the place to pose this question... Why is it all the published data for the 50 Beo specify fairly fast powders from a rifle cartridge standpoint? I realize the barrels are usually short, but one would think; heavy bullet, large case, rifle... definitely more of a "rifle" powder than the pistol type powders listed?

What am I missing here?

Thanks,
Vettepilot

[Greg S]

Since 2015, I seen numerous refrence to Beowulf Data and Quickload. Folks have played around with it and believe that there is something with the case design and Quickload that does not compute. It is a program, where as factory data (Alex Arms) meets SAAMI.

I'd be more tempted to play with data in a bolt gun than a gas gun. Play at your own peril.

[Vettepilot]

Oh, I'm not using Quickload. I just did a search on my question, and this thread popped up.

Just curious, really, as to why all available load data for the 50 Beo uses fairly fast powders.

Thanks,
Vettepilot