Red dust in powder

[Bazoo]

Thanks EMC,

Turtle, That's kinda what I'm thinking. I shoot magnums here and there so it shouldn't take me long to use it up when I'm ready.

[kevin c]

Say, Dutchman, if you don't mind my asking:

Is that keg cardboard with a metal top and bottom? Were there any changes in the cardboard, lid or base that you could see in the inside?

[Bazoo]

After setting in a ziploc bag, there is some off gassing and the bag is swelling some. Not bursting but more than it was.

I plan to load some in the 44 and use it up over the next year or so.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

After setting in a ziploc bag, there is some off gassing and the bag is swelling some. Not bursting but more than it was.

I plan to load some in the 44 and use it up over the next year or so.

While I gave some "indirect" advice earlier in this thread, that is contrary to what I'm about to say, if you have this evidence of a ziploc Bag swelling, then I SURELY would NOT load any ammo with it.
That's my 2¢ worth of non-expert advice.
Good Luck.

[TNsailorman]

I dumped about 11 pounds or so of AA4064 on instruction from Alliant last fall. They were recalling and paying for powder that had the "red dust" or a strong acrid odor with certain lot numbers. I also had to pull down some ammo that was already loaded. But they paid me for every pound I threw away. Nice folks--indeed! james

[swheeler]

I dumped about 11 pounds or so of AA4064 on instruction from Alliant last fall. They were recalling and paying for powder that had the "red dust" or a strong acrid odor with certain lot numbers. I also had to pull down some ammo that was already loaded. But they paid me for every pound I threw away. Nice folks--indeed! james

I dumped some Accurate powder on instruction from Western Powders last fall, Alliant??

[JimB..]

Deteriorating powder can spontaneously combust? Crap, now I need to go check on the powder in storage, some from the 1970’s.

Think checking it once a year is adequate?

[cosmoline one]

If you know youre going to shoot it immediately, I'd use it, but if youre going to store it at all I wouldn't take the risk!
I'm dealing with this exact situation (1964 BXN 7.62x54r)- dust in powder, base of bullets corroding-
I'm polishing the bullet bases with steel wool, wiping them with wax, and reusing-BUT the cases & powder are being trashed

[largom]

IMO just not worth the risk. Is a pound or two of powder worth more than your gun or your limbs or your life. Just dumped 4 lbs. of H-1000 for red dust.

[Bazoo]

If there was a chance it would cause over pressure and blow my gun or me up then sure, it's certainly not worth the risk. But I don't believe there to be that risk. All the research I've done indicates the powder at current level of deterioration will show no signs of an issue and be safe to load. The research also shows that as deterioration continues, it will result in under pressure.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I rarely will openly criticize the opinions of fellow boolit caster's, but I believe this opinion is foolish ...to use smokeless powder that has started the deterioration process far enough along (that it's easy to see by the average person, per the evidence you posted), that it likely no longer has any stabilizing chemical left (as mentioned by Hodgdon's warning statement below) .


from hodgdonreloading.com

Smokeless Propellant
The main ingredient of smokeless propellant, comprising from about 55% to 90% of the composition, is nitrocellulose. The process of creating nitrocellulose leaves remnant acid in the material. This acid immediately starts decomposing the finished product. Left alone the decomposition will reach the stage where the propellant becomes unstable and self-ignites. This process resulted in massive explosions at U.S. Government arsenals after World War I.

To increase the life of the smokeless propellant, a stabilizing chemical is used. This “stabilizer” reacts with the acid to slow down the decomposition process. However, as the stabilizer reacts with the acid it is consumed. After the stabilizer is totally consumed, the propellant is no longer protected from the internal acid.

The entire stabilizer / decomposition process is a time and temperature function – the higher the temperature, the shorter the safe life of the powder. Even moderate temperature, over extended time, leads to propellant decomposition. As a rule of thumb, any temperature over that which is comfortable to a person is accelerating the decomposition of smokeless propellants.

Under proper storage, modern smokeless powder can last for decades. However, this does not mean the reloader can ignore how the powder is stored, particularly if in an uncontrolled environment such as a garage or storage building.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/rel...wder-stability

[Bazoo]

I appreciate the link and the concern JonB.

If I had not dumped the powder in a Tupperware and seen dust on the container walls I wouldn't have noticed anything wrong with it. Opening the original container and looking in there was no dust visible.
This is a large consideration to me. If it had dust in it like the above picture, it's obvious it shouldn't be loaded. Since in my powder, the dust was so little that the graphite would hide it from just the powder shifting, no one would have seen it.

Here is my powder.


The thumbnail is of the swollen bag immediately before I opened it. Pictures don't work so well from my wife's cellphone.

[Bazoo]

Anyways, I loaded and fired some 44 magnum with the powder in question and there was no signs of over pressure or issues of any type.

[farmbif]

I'm with Jon b on this one, better safe than sorry. after all powder is not as scarce as primers. when in doubt fertilize the garden with it.

[Bazoo]

I don't shoot an abundance of full power 44 magnum so it took me a while to get to this.

I agree better safe than sorry. All of the research I did though pointed towards it being safe. Safe but not recommended are two different things.

The loads I tried were
Hornady brass trimmed 2.255
RCBS 44-245-SWC sized .430 50/50 lube
CCI 300

Powder charges
19.5
20.0
20.5
21.0
21.5

Those charge weights come from RCBS data from loadbooks USA manual,

Accuracy was bout normal for me with full house 44 mag, and in dim light as it was getting up later in the day, bout 4" at 25 yards. I had one group that was tight left to right but with vertical stringing. I was setting in a chair propped on a knee for a rest. I'm still learning how to handle that much recoil obviously.