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Thread: Gas check before pc?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master poppy42's Avatar
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    Gas check before pc?

    I just started PCing 223 ( for an AR) and as anyone whoís ever put those little tiny gas checks on those little 22 cal Boolets it ainít easy. Especially after the Boolets have been PCed. My question is there any reason why I canít put the gas checks on first and then PC? Or is there a better way to do it.
    Long, Wide, Deep, and Without Hesitation!

  2. #2
    AKA: GRMPS Conditor22's Avatar
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    You can put the GC on before PC BUT you have to make sure the die you use is 100% clean of any contaminants so the PC will stick.

    I only like to size once so I built a simple jig out of plastic/nylon/cutting board material to set the .223 GC on the boolits [This jig just gets them started on the boolits to finish seating when the boolits are sized]

    level 1 = solid base
    level 2 expanded to the size of the GC
    level 3 drilled the size of the .223 boolit
    level 4slightly country sunk for the tips of the boolits





    I set the GC in level 2, set on level 3



    set the boolits in level 3, set on level 4 and 5



    tap on level 5 to get that batch of GC started squarely.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master poppy42's Avatar
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    Nice setup!
    Hi
    Long, Wide, Deep, and Without Hesitation!

  4. #4
    AKA: GRMPS Conditor22's Avatar
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    easy to make and works well for me, no flaring of the GC required just don't put a super thick coat of PC on

  5. #5
    Boolit Bub 405grain's Avatar
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    I've been casting and coating a lot of different 30 caliber boolits lately. Been using the shake-n-bake method of powder coating using smoke's powders. I stand the boolits on end on a sheet of parchment paper and cook them in an old toaster oven. The PC comes out great, but there can be a tiny ridge around the edge of the gas check seat because that's where the boolits were standing as the PC flowed. Sometimes this causes problems when trying to install the gas check. I decided to try putting the gas checks on prior to powder coating, and this has worked out better. I've been pushing on the gas checks by hand on the "naked" boolits and they click right into place. Then I run the boolits through a .312" push through sizer to set the gas check. After that I powder coat as normal, and afterwords run the PC'd & gas checked boolits through a .309" push through sizer. I'm seeing good results this way.

  6. #6
    Boolit Bub
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    I did it both ways ... before requires resizing twice, once to add the GC and then post PC. Itís a pain and you can risk getting lead streaks in you die.

    Last batch I did it after PC. I found tapping the bullet up into the die helped seat the gc before the final push to fully resize ... tap, tap, tap, push. I also used a very small hammer to tap it on too, upside down, on a block of wood. Both worked ok.

  7. #7
    Boolit Bub 405grain's Avatar
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    Ha ha ha! I tried that too. I tapped the gas check on to some powder coated 311284's with the nose on a piece of wood using a tiny hammer. Something didn't seem right. I rolled some of those boolits on a flat surface and they wobbled like a banana. It was comical.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    I've commented about 30 caliber bullets and GC's before and noticed that particular size shank (.284" supposedly) causes more problems than the larger sizes. A .22 can only be more entertaining!

    I have one specific .32 caliber mold that had a shank too large to put GC's on before the bullets came anywhere near PC. I ended up using a GC expanding tool. Bought a NOE expander, but before it showed up, I ended up making one. I know this isn't the caliber the OP was asking about, but take a look at the NOE GC expander (and hope he has it in stock) if you want to install the GC after PC.

    If you want or need to install GC's before PC, try and use a lubesizer to install the GC, then PC, then size. Or make a tool such as the one above... Some of those small GC bullets can be a PITA but I believe that PC is worth the trouble when you get it all figured out. For me it is PC first then install GC's and size using a Lee sizer. A crooked GC on a bullet is not acceptable to me and probably not anyone else either.

    Fun ain't it!

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Isn't one of the supposed advantages to PC boolits, the fact that you can do without the gas check?
    It's all chicken, even the beak!

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I quit casting and checking 223's a few years ago. those teeny little pills are just too small to handle and PC. let alone check.

    I only load commercial FMJ's for 223 these days. In the end, it costs very little more to go that route, especially if you value your time, which I sure do!

    I cast, PC, and check (if necessary) everything from 30 cal thru 45 cal with excellent success. But PC seems to eliminate the need for checks in everything I have tried.

    banger

  11. #11
    Boolit Master poppy42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bangerjim View Post
    I quit casting and checking 223's a few years ago. those teeny little pills are just too small to handle and PC. let alone check.

    I only load commercial FMJ's for 223 these days. In the end, it costs very little more to go that route, especially if you value your time, which I sure do!

    I cast, PC, and check (if necessary) everything from 30 cal thru 45 cal with excellent success. But PC seems to eliminate the need for checks in everything I have tried.

    banger
    I’ve got all the time in the world as for money, not so much. Besides I enjoy the challenge!
    Long, Wide, Deep, and Without Hesitation!

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy42 View Post
    I’ve got all the time in the world as for money, not so much. Besides I enjoy the challenge!
    I believe that's called reinventing the wheel and I'm guilty of it. I usually do things like this when I can't get the specific product any other way though.

    Those tiny .22" cast bullets must be something to handle! I consider the .32's to be a little bit of a PITA and don't plan to go down the .22 road. My hats off to you for doing it though.

  13. #13
    AKA: GRMPS Conditor22's Avatar
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    IF you are getting "flashing" around the base of PC'd boolits you may not be removing all/enough excess PC on the boolit before baking.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master poppy42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conditor22 View Post
    IF you are getting "flashing" around the base of PC'd boolits you may not be removing all/enough excess PC on the boolit before baking.
    I’m a little confused what do you mean by flashing around the base of the boolet and how are you Removing excess powder from around the gas Check shank before baking on a .225 dia boolet?
    Long, Wide, Deep, and Without Hesitation!

  15. #15
    Boolit Master corbinace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy42 View Post
    I’m a little confused what do you mean by flashing around the base of the boolet and how are you Removing excess powder from around the gas Check shank before baking on a .225 dia boolet?
    I think he was referring to the little bit of flash that can happen at the baking sheet/boolit interface when you do not tap enough of the powder off before baking if you stand them on end. The standing part would seem to be a bit of a challenge to me, I have a hard enough tiime with .291s and keeping them standing. Maybe you are just laying them out on a screen???

    That bit of flash can hinder check seating, as you I am sure know.

    I have done it both ways, before and after, as well. Some check shanks are tight enough to hold the check for tumbling and baking. This leaves me sizing only one time after baking.

    Let us know how you fare on those minuscule projectiles.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master poppy42's Avatar
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    I’ve thought of making a jig The exact diameter of the gas check shank standing the bullets up and covering the gas check shank and using my powder coat spray gun and spraying them. The problems as I see it are the jig would have to be made out of metal so that you could ground the bullets. I suppose you could make it out of wood and cover it with tinfoil and use the tinfoil as a ground. I suppose you could make it out of wood and cover it with tinfoil and use the tinfoil as a ground. But if you don’t make it out of metal what could you possibly use that wouldn’t be affected by baking the bullets? I actually think I’m probably putting too much thought into this and it’s probably gonna be the easiest to just gas check the bullets before I PC them. Anyway I’ll keep you guys apprised of what I come up with an Anyway I’ll keep you guys apprised of what I come up with and how it turns out
    Long, Wide, Deep, and Without Hesitation!

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy42 View Post
    I’ve got all the time in the world as for money, not so much. Besides I enjoy the challenge!
    You are lucky to have "all the time in the world", my fiend. As I get older, time gets less and less and money gets more and more!

    There are no side pockets on my casket, so I spend what I want when I want, and do not waste valuable time making things from scratch as I did 30 years ago. If I can buy a GOOD commercial version of what I need, I do. That's why I use FMJ 223 boolits 100%. And save the Pb for 250 & 300gn 45's! (a fun boolit to shoot!)

    Stay safe out there.

    banger

  18. #18
    Boolit Master poppy42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bangerjim View Post
    You are lucky to have "all the time in the world", my fiend. As I get older, time gets less and less and money gets more and more!

    There are no side pockets on my casket, so I spend what I want when I want, and do not waste valuable time making things from scratch as I did 30 years ago. If I can buy a GOOD commercial version of what I need, I do. That's why I use FMJ 223 boolits 100%. And save the Pb for 250 & 300gn 45's! (a fun boolit to shoot!)

    Stay safe out there.

    banger
    Seems as if you have a problem I certainly donít have sounds like you got more money than you need and if thatís the case I got none so Iíd be more than happy to help you spend it! LOL Heck would you be interested in adopting a 63-year-old guy thatís broke?
    Long, Wide, Deep, and Without Hesitation!

  19. #19
    i have gone both ways,,,, but now i put the gas check on then i powder coat.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master


    Kraschenbirn's Avatar
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    If you're using Lyman lubrisizer, get yourself one of their gas check seater tool ( https://www.lymanproducts.com/gas-check-seater ) and that should take care of the issue. Yes, it requires an extra step in prepping for PC but you don't have to actually size twice.

    Bill
    "I'm not often right but I've never been wrong."

    Jimmy Buffett
    "Scarlet Begonias"

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check