Lowering the front sight on a SAA.

[USSR]

GSP7,

Read this in post 15:

If I can get the heavier 240gr bullet to hit at POA, I could live with the 200gr bullet shooting a little low.

C'mon guys, read the posts.

Don

[onelight]

If you have good lighting , I have Used white out on the front sight to give me a reference and get close .
I gradually add white out until I am close , file a little shy of that point and finish filing at the range as the guys describe above .

[snowwolfe]

The slower load has a longer barrel time so the pistol pivots more before the bullet exists the barrel so while the slower bullet still drops more it will hit higher.

https://revolverguy.com/sight-regula...int-of-impact/

https://www.gunnuts.net/2013/12/09/r...-fast-bullets/

Thanks, saved me some typing

[Chill Wills]

I for one would not regulate a Colt SAA or clone with 200gr boolits. Those revolvers were made for a 255gr boolit at roughly 800fps, they should shoot very close to the sights with this load.

I hear you and have not done anything to my third generation Colt 45 since I got it in the early 1990's. I find it stays a safe Queen mostly because it puts 255 grn bullets powered by normal smokeless loads 6-7" high and 4" left at 25 yards. That is the distance I like best for general use in the forest.
I have shot a limited number of Black Powder fueled loads and it does shoot closer to point of aim- But still not really great. I have not wanted to mess with this handgun just because of its value. I have read in these forums of turning the barrel to center the impact. I'm not ready. I have other firearms to carry.

On the other hand, I have an Italian SAA 44 Special that is accurate as all get out.It puts its 265 grn RCBS Keith's nicely center but 5" low at 25yds. Well, that is not handy. I have yet to lower the front sight on it either, but doing so to that one seems worth it to make a point of aim shooter out of it. All loads tried from it land low or lower - no amount of load adjustment corrects that. Lowering the front sight is an option.

I get the notion of not adjusting the fixed sights on these SAA's but at some point it is going to happen and should in my opinion if the whole point of having a firearm in the outdoors is to hit what you are aiming at.

[sharps4590]

It ain't rocket surgery. Go slow, shoot, go slow. Then, kinda like when you find yourself in a hole, stop diggin'. Stop filing when the POI is where you want it.

[JoeJames]

Could try lowering the powder charge to decrease velocity. The slower the bullet the higher they usually hit.

Quite true: dwell time. I was on the opposite end trying to regulate my sights on my Lipsey 4 1/2" New Model Blackhawk. It was shooting near the absolute top of my target at 25 yards with 240 grain SWC's. I upped the powder charge in increments until I got it to point of aim. Still a moderate load - 6.8 grains of Unique running about 890 fps.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

It ain't rocket surgery. Go slow, shoot, go slow. Then, kinda like when you find yourself in a hole, stop diggin'. Stop filing when the POI is where you want it.

Well said Sir!

[USSR]

Could try lowering the powder charge to decrease velocity. The slower the bullet the higher they usually hit.

My loads are light to begin with, so this is not an option.

Don

[gwpercle]

Use the OSM (Old School Method )
1.) File two strokes of the front sight
2.) Shoot
3.) Repeat 1 & 2 until sighted in .

When you get close to sighted in ...take 1 stroke at a time .
Gary

[DougGuy]

I hear you and have not done anything to my third generation Colt 45 since I got it in the early 1990's. I find it stays a safe Queen mostly because it puts 255 grn bullets powered by normal smokeless loads 6-7" high and 4" left at 25 yards. That is the distance I like best for general use in the forest.
I have shot a limited number of Black Powder fueled loads and it does shoot closer to point of aim- But still not really great. I have not wanted to mess with this handgun just because of its value. I have read in these forums of turning the barrel to center the impact. I'm not ready. I have other firearms to carry.

On the other hand, I have an Italian SAA 44 Special that is accurate as all get out.It puts its 265 grn RCBS Keith's nicely center but 5" low at 25yds. Well, that is not handy. I have yet to lower the front sight on it either, but doing so to that one seems worth it to make a point of aim shooter out of it. All loads tried from it land low or lower - no amount of load adjustment corrects that. Lowering the front sight is an option.

I get the notion of not adjusting the fixed sights on these SAA's but at some point it is going to happen and should in my opinion if the whole point of having a firearm in the outdoors is to hit what you are aiming at.

Don't laugh.. I actually did this, true story..

I have a 7 1/2" SBH that I use for the Lee C430-310-RF boolit, I think I have that over 17.0gr 2400 but don't quote me on the load. I had the rear sight screwed all the way down, and it was still hitting quite high at 25yds so in the shop I went, and upside down on the belt sander it went, until the rear sight blade was flush with the base. I filed a new notch in the middle, "blued" it with a black sharpie and shot it some more. Now, it is dead on with the big heavy boolit shooting on level ground, if I am in my treestand @21 feet up I need to hold under a couple inches for a 40yd shot on a deer.

Yeah that's pretty drastic but hey it's a hunting gun, it goes to the woods and back in it's storage, and that's the only load I ever shoot with it. Cylinder is throated to .4325" for .432" boolits, they are 50/50+2% with Felix lube, can scratch them with a fingernail, I use my modded collet crimp for these heavies, forcing cone is recut to 11 degrees, and this one has laid more Bambi down on the ground than any other firearm I own. It has fed me and mine steadily over the years I have owned it. My son will probably look at it one day and go WTH was he thinking?????

[USSR]

DougGuy,

I know EXACTLY what you mean about a revolver shooting way high with the rear sight screwed all the way down; I own a S&W 25-5.

Don

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK; according to Nuece's formula with a result of .00666 which is real close to .007 or two or three good file strokes, I'd ask,,,

Can you actually see the difference between .000 and .007 from 3 feet away? Maybe indexing the sights in a different way would get you there instead of filing off metal you can't put back.

There are two factors in sighting. Sight Alignment,, and Sight Picture. They are two different things. Sight alignment is how you index the sights side to side and up and down. IE: how the Front Sight sits in the Rear Sight.

Sight Picture is what the sights look like when you hit the target.

Perfect example of this is the Tru Glo TFO Sights on my G23. The Dots are all the same size however the Front Sight Dot appears smaller due to it's distance from the rear sight.

When I first started shooting with these sights I was lining up all three dots in a row. All shots were going low.

After figuring out that the top of the front sight blade aligned flush with the top of the rear sight yielded a correct hit, I realized that the Front Dot's "top edge" coincided with the top edges of the rear dots, my new Sight Picture became evident.

Hits occur with every shot when I have broke the shot when this alignment is held in place. (my part)

You might try that before jumping off this cliff.

Randy

[M-Tecs]

Without knowing the exact distance from the back of the rear sight to the highest point on the front we can't give exact measurement but the amount will be more like .067".

As to the human eyes ability see .007 difference on the front sight service rifle and iron sight match rifle shooters make proven that they can see much finer than .007". On an M-14 sight radius .007781254" is one MOA so basically .008".

When you get to the Master and High Master levels service rifle shooter grumble that the .004" movement on the 1/2 MOA NM sights is too coarse. The match rifle shooter grumble about the 1/4" sights or .002" being too coarse. My eyes were never that good but some of the US Palma Team members I scored for could call their shots well within the X ring at a 1,000 yards. The X Ring is 10".

https://www.creedmoorsports.com/prod...ht-accessories
Clicks in either 1/4, 1/8, or 1/12 MOA

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Be sure zero is set for how you shoot. Most shoot single actions off hand. Your zero from the bench is probably going to be different.

[Chill Wills]

Not to put too fine a point on this but I agree with M-tecs basic message.

The human eye can discern these small differences and that is why the sights work. I say this from experience. Back when the NRA supported an active Creedmoor team I traveled to and shot international matches on their dime as well as shooting untold numbers of domestic longrange creedmoor matches. These are all iron sight matches at 800, 900, and 1000 yards. I have won the national championship and international championships as well as placed in the top ten most matches. If you could not see these small differences, it could not be done. The problem is not seeing the difference as much as holding it correctly.

W.R. Buchanan, respectfully, that is why in the three dots of the same size example you gave, you could discriminate differences in the sights by either holding the center of the dots level or holding the top of the dots level.

I did the math using a little different method but am confident in the numbers. My SAA 44 Special is shooting accurate groups but low at 25 yards and can be corrected with 0.026" off the top of the front sight. This info is going to be rechecked on the target before there is any action removing metal. Then maybe I will make a half correction and shoot it again. In the spirit of taking it off slowly, then maybe take more off.
Slow and easy makes for a fun project. I am in not hurry.

Be safe, Michael Rix

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Chill Wills, my hat is off to you. I’ve shot those 1,000 yard matches with iron sights. The only 1,000 yard range in this state is on the windy side of the mountains, not where I live. Cranking the Soule for what the wind will be at the time of the next shot is challenging. I shoot a .45-70.

The OP states he is 3-4” low at 50 feet with a 250 gr. boolit. Whether that is from a bench or off hand, he has not posted. I don’t have a ballistics calculator.

[USSR]

The OP states he is 3-4” low at 50 feet with a 250 gr. boolit. Whether that is from a bench or off hand, he has not posted.

It was a 240gr bullet (Lyman 452423 clone) fired from a bench. Since I have a range on my land outside my house, I will remove a little from the front sight and test it until I have it shooting higher.

Don

[Silver Jack Hammer]

USSR, Before you remove any front sight, try shooting off hand and then see where your point of impact is on the target.

[USSR]

Sorry Jack, but that defies all logic. I simply cannot hold any where's near as steady shooting off hand. The whole idea of shooting off a bench is to eliminate as much shooter error as possible.

Don

[Silver Jack Hammer]

If your groups off hand aren’t low, I’d just shoot the gun without filing the sights. Your zero off hand is likely to be different than your zero from a bench. A single action is generally carried on a belt and shot off hand.

Have you printed some groups out to 25 yards, 50 yards?

My 452423 drops boolits weighing 250 gr. They don’t size very well in my .452” H&I die, I have use .454”