Too hot for police revolvers?

[PBSmith]

I've been range testing quite a few .38 Special loads using the old 200-gr. Super Police bullet. These I've been casting soft with the Lee GB version of Lyman358430, a blunt round nose number.

A very accurate load, at least in my .357 Colt Trooper (original, not MkIII), has been 4.0 grs Herco. I don't doubt that load is safe in the .357, but I'm wondering if it's too hot for police revolvers. Two revolvers that I'd like to use this round with are a S&W M10-5 and the Colt Detective Special (1960 manufacture).

At one point Lyman was giving 4.1 grs Unique as tops with this bullet for the .38, Special then they backed down to 3.6 grs.

My hunch tells me the 4.0 grs Herco might be a touch hot in the two .38 Special revolvers mentioned above.

Your thoughts?

[Winger Ed.]

They're like your car. Sure, it'll do 120, but it'll last longer keeping it under 80.

I'd load up a easy going target load for .38Spec. and be happy with it.
And a box or two of full House .357s to hunt with, or impress the teenagers.

[tazman]

I have an Alliant manual from 2001 that has load data for 200 grain boolits using Herco.
The 38 Special max load is 3.8 grains.
The +P load is 4.0 grains.
The OAL for both loads is 1.54".
Velocities are 785fps. and 825fps. respectively, from a 5.6 inch barrel.
Pressures were listed as 16K and 17K respectively.

[Chill Wills]

I was always interested in that 200 grn (195grn Lyman mold) in the 38 Special. When I was a kid the Remington Catalog I had dog-eared showed it in the line-up.
I found a used 4-cavity sometime back. I would have to see my loading notes but really wanted to say, in my S&W - 10 the fixed sights puts all loads 6-8" high at 25 yards. If you are a one gun man you can get used to that if you have too. For me, I only use the heavy bullet in the S&W - 67 with the adjustable sights now. I much rather have a gun that hits where it points.
Something to think about.

[USSR]

I have an Alliant manual from 2001 that has load data for 200 grain boolits using Herco.

There's a reason we keep those old manuals.

Don

[tazman]

There's a reason we keep those old manuals.

Don

Yup. I have no idea how many times I have used or posted data from that manual.
I downloaded it from castpics a long time ago.

[jaguarxk120]

Remember that 200 grain police loading is not meant to go fast.
The bullet is unstable and any resistance (like a body) will cause it
to turn and tumble. The bullet does not expand but causes damage
due to the tumbling effect.

[PBSmith]

I have an Alliant manual from 2001 that has load data for 200 grain boolits using Herco.
The 38 Special max load is 3.8 grains.
The +P load is 4.0 grains.
The OAL for both loads is 1.54".
Velocities are 785fps. and 825fps. respectively, from a 5.6 inch barrel.
Pressures were listed as 16K and 17K respectively.

Thanks tazman. Appreciate you taking the time to pass the info along.

[Teddy (punchie)]

They're like your car. Sure, it'll do 120, but it'll last longer keeping it under 80.

I'd load up a easy going target load for .38Spec. and be happy with it.
And a box or two of full House .357s to hunt with, or impress the teenagers.

Yes!! We had a 760 we overloaded, ended up talking to engineer that tested him. After asking ser. number he said "" It okay to use that load but don't go too much hotter and don't shoot too many. "" I'm like want are you say this was and accident, He them explained "" that gun blows at ???? and your still 10 percent blow the highest pressure I would shoot it at. "" I'm like thank so much !! we were hot enough that the action came open and the casing and primer were one, primer flat as it could be. Last thing he said was hold on to it, she is going to jump when you shoot her that hot.,,, So all in the gun and what it is and model and ser. number. Hard to get information like this. It was back in late 90's and was on the land line for along time waiting. The kind lady that answered the call, knew him personally and called him by name on the floor to take the phone call.

[Teddy (punchie)]

Yup. I have no idea how many times I have used or posted data from that manual.
I downloaded it from castpics a long time ago.

Buddies are all like why collect all of those Books, I say you never know when you may need them. I learn a lot from old equipment manuals. Just because something is old doesn't means it out dated.

[tazman]

Buddies are all like why collect all of those Books, I say you never know when you may need them. I learn a lot from old equipment manuals. Just because something is old doesn't means it out dated.

A lot of the data in that manual is identical to the data published now. The main difference is, some of the new powders has superseded the old ones and some of the older powders were dropped from the manuals even though they are still available.

[smkummer]

I am loading that bullet with data from the 45th Lyman manual and using 2400 in the 38 special. I will only use that load in medium frame Colts ( official police ) or larger ( new service). And of course a .357 revolver. It’s a “thumper” of a bullet when shooting steel. In my Marlin 357 rifle, it makes a noticeable difference in 100 yard steel over a standard 38 special. When I say noticeable, I mean I can easily hear the “clang” when I hit the plate over a 158 38 bullet. Of course a .357 158 bullet makes a loud “clang” as well.

Just yesterday I was shooting my 2 41 colts with a 200 grain hollowbase along with that warmer 195 grain 38 special load. The clang and movement on the 25 steel was about identical.