RepackboxLee PrecisionTitan ReloadingADvertise here
WidenersInline FabricationMidSouth Shooters SupplyRotoMetals2

Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: S&W 1937 Brazilian Contract, Phase #2

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Media, PA
    Posts
    206

    S&W 1937 Brazilian Contract, Phase #2

    With all the parts now in hand, I headed to my workshop with the last two parts from Ebay. Both were new old stock 1917 parts, and are nice. Iíve finally figured out how to assemble and disassemble the gun, so after about 10 minutes I had the trigger and hammer groups in and things seemed to function fine. I dropped in the cylinder and put the side plate on, and said a prayer. The S&W gods were not smiling at me, as I now have a gun the works beautifully on one cylinder (#3, I marked all the positions) in both single and double action, and hit or miss with double action on the other 5 cylinders. None of the other 5 positions work single action. It appears that I have a timing issue. As the hand is one of the new parts, Iím guessing some of the notches on the ejector are worn or not being engaged properly by the hand. Iím going to try reassembling a few times with a bit of better lubricant and see if anything changes. If nothing else, I guess I can fire her single shot on the #3 position. Iím amazed by the quality of the machining of the parts in these pistols. More to come...

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    90 miles North of Texarkana 9 miles from OK in the green hell
    Posts
    4,515
    Even in 1937 they were still hand fitted . So I would expect to have to adjust parts to fit .

    For it's little value after strenuous search and research as far as parts go excluding cylinder and frame heat treatment N Frame parts are N Frame parts . A 1917 will take an M29 44 mag cylinder but obviously wouldn't be a good idea to shoot that way because the frame isn't up to it . I'd bet a smooth 44 mag cylinder in a M29 frame would take a steady diet of Ruger 45 Colts though . Carry on .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  3. #3
    Boolit Man Ajohns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Roseau, Mn
    Posts
    85
    I went through this on a Colt Army double action. I know, they're different. Depending on the wear on your ratchet, I'm not sure that's the final answer. Maybe remark the good timed chamber at #1 and from there, see how things line up on the remaining chambers. Make sure things are tight, make sure everything is clean, make sure your bolt and such are not wore. And if the ratchet is wore bad, you maybe able to find a better one and see how its timed after that.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Way up in the Cascades
    Posts
    3,569
    Ratchets and hands are just about the trickiest chore in revolversmithing. Fortunately, although they're getting scarcer, the parts aren't all gone. It's just about impossible to diagnose your problem remotely, but start with the hand. Don't file the ratchets. Some of this is logic. We might make the assumption that the cylinder used to index properly and that the hand is at fault. This theory is kind of reinforced by the fact that 5 of the 6 cylinders behave the same. Much better to fit the hand to the ratchets than to alter the ratchets. You'll have to look and look at it and study it and see what it is failing to do. Is the hand engaging the ratchets, or is it too short; or maybe too long? Is the sear spring present? Is it deformed (easily replaced)? Is sufficient forward pressure exerted on the hand to make it engage? Do you have a copy of Kuhnhausen's S&W Shop Manuals?

    DG

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Hampton Roads, Virginia
    Posts
    11,690
    Definitely get Kuhnhausen's manual but also check out Jack First for parts.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    343
    When you get your timing issue resolved, you should check throat size. Mine ran .454+. Probably not a biggy if you shoot jacketed.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Oyeboten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    625
    Post us a nice close up of the Ejector Star

    Did you replace the Hand?

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Media, PA
    Posts
    206
    Here are a couple pictures. The extractor and cylinder serial numbers match. Note that the frame and barrel serial numbers are within 1,000 of each other, but are higher than the cylinder by around 7,000. The crane number and the number in the crane recess don’t match either. The hand was replaced with a new one, still in cosmoline.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	55A5FB75-465B-4590-9CC2-9DF7B8C76DA4.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	42.4 KB 
ID:	262386Click image for larger version. 

Name:	93DA712F-9B38-40BD-B909-1D4B0CBC5D25.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	47.2 KB 
ID:	262387
    Last edited by Jkrem; 05-19-2020 at 10:00 AM.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    2,745
    Quote Originally Posted by Jkrem View Post
    ... The hand was replaced with a new one, still in cosmoline...
    There you go! Brand new, unfitted part! I know where I would start.

    Kevin
    Knowledge I take to my grave is wasted.

    I prefer to use cartridges born before I was.

    Success doesn't make me happy, being happy is what allows me to be successful.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    8,171
    Quote Originally Posted by Harter66 View Post
    Even in 1937 they were still hand fitted . So I would expect to have to adjust parts to fit .

    For it's little value after strenuous search and research as far as parts go excluding cylinder and frame heat treatment N Frame parts are N Frame parts . A 1917 will take an M29 44 mag cylinder but obviously wouldn't be a good idea to shoot that way because the frame isn't up to it . I'd bet a smooth 44 mag cylinder in a M29 frame would take a steady diet of Ruger 45 Colts though . Carry on .
    I obtained in a trade an M1917 with badly pitted barrel and cylinder. I found online a new INA Brazilian manufacture replacement barrel and a Model 29 .44 Magnum cylinder and crane assy. I sent the gun and parts to John Taylor to fit, line-bore and chamber the .44 Magnum cylinder to .45 Colt, having cylinder throats .4525, leaving the cylinder full length, shortening the barrel extension where it protrudes into the frame window, cutting a new forcing cone and rebluing the gun. I now have an accurate, trim and functional .45 Colt S&W DA which I am very happy with, and which shoots to the sights with the same Accurate 45-264H and 7.5 grains of Bullseye I shoot in my 1920 Colt New Service. A "full charge" but safe, stout and effective field load.

    Pics of my "Sewer Pipe" .45 "before" and "after." Thank you John!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SewerPipeBoreM1917.jpg 
Views:	4 
Size:	53.1 KB 
ID:	262471Click image for larger version. 

Name:	M1917PittedChamber.jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	38.8 KB 
ID:	262472Click image for larger version. 

Name:	AcrossTheBarRoomFloor.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	46.4 KB 
ID:	262468Click image for larger version. 

Name:	S&WRecylndered45Colt.jpg 
Views:	8 
Size:	30.5 KB 
ID:	262469Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SewerPipe1917AFTERnewBblCyl45Colt.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	45.0 KB 
ID:	262470Click image for larger version. 

Name:	45-264H-D.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	22.6 KB 
ID:	262475
    Last edited by Outpost75; 05-20-2020 at 07:03 PM.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Posts
    6,655
    Impossible to diagnose long distance but I agree with Strawhat that the hand is a good place to focus on. A new hand is probably too long (which a far better problem than too short). Before you start filing and polishing, take a good long time to look at what is happening.

    Does the cylinder have end play? Will it cycle with empty casings in place? When it fails to lock up in DA is the cylinder bolt rising up?
    Is the cylinder failing to carry up or is it being thrown past the point of lock up?
    Take your time and evaluate why it is out of time. Not all timing issues are the same issue.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Media, PA
    Posts
    206
    I have a new 1917 extractor coming from an armorer’s estate. I appreciate all the suggestions, and I will be spending some quality time with all the parts once the extractor arrives. My thought is to have enough quality parts to send to a revolver-smith. Have a great holiday weekend.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    100
    Be sure to do your function test and fitting with dummy rounds or empty brass in the charge holes. The cartridges themselves help take up play between the extractor and cylinder.
    There are so many things to consider that all need to happen in the proper sequence for a DA revolver to work properly. Consider it a learning experience and enjoy the process of learning.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check