Colorado Muzzleloading Conical Problem - Need Input

[Woodnbow]

Hello brassell31,

I don't know if this would fly or not without tumbling.
But I think with a round base one could patch it.
Maybe you know someone who swages 44 cal. bullets,
have them form something up for your needs.

AntiqueSledMan.

I’ve sized .490 roundball through a .452 lee sizing die for use in an 1860 Army Colt.

You could do something similar using a two or three step process from .490 to . 452 and then to .430. Patch them as normal and off you go!

[longcruise]

I’ve sized .490 roundball through a .452 lee sizing die for use in an 1860 Army Colt.

You could do something similar using a two or three step process from .490 to . 452 and then to .430. Patch them as normal and off you go!

Now there's an idea worth trying.

[Edward]

I too will donate some if needed, just don"t forget the wad under the real/card over the powder ,very important for accuracy !!!

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello brassell31,

I re-read the entire post, discovering you have a lathe.
Here is a little swaging die I built, of course it's not what you want but with a little
modification you could form what ever you want from a 170 - 180 grain soft bullet.

AntiqueSledMan.

36_Caliber_Hollow_Base_Conical-2.pdf

[725]

brassell31
Sounds like you could use one of them crew served .22's for those squirrels.

[brassell31]

brassell31
Sounds like you could use one of them crew served .22's for those squirrels.

Some of the colonies cover several square miles. Best we can do is to thin them out in the higher dollar alfalfa fields, hay meadows, and pastures. The ones in the sage brush are to hard to see and hunt effectively. 17 hmr at 24 cents/round. is the most cost effective with the highest hit ratio, 0-175 yards. .22 LR Stingers are 16 cents each, but with an autoloader, if you miss the first shot, the temptation to keep pulling the trigger can waste 4 or 5 shots. Highly effective to 100 yards. Currently I'm trying to work up a cast load for my .270 Win that I had 35 years ago that I lost the records for. It was very accurate at 100 yards plus as I remember. With all the free lead and brass I have accumulated over the years, the mold I already have, plus low cost powder and primers I have scored, I figure it will cost me less than 8 cents ea. Labor is free (haha). The .221 Fireball and .223 Rem are also cost effective, but not used much because most of the squirrel are inside of 200 yards. Muzzleloader of various calibers are used (sidelocks and flintlocks) for fun factor, but effective use is only 50 yards the way I shoot. Sidearms are always worn in case a mound master charges or sneaks inside the perimeter.

[brassell31]

Mooman76, thanks for the offer. I have sent a PM. Some interesting ideas from all to consider. Thank you all very much for your input.

[indian joe]

In Colorado, for muzzleloading, .40 caliber and larger is required for hunting deer, Pronghorn, and black bear, .50 and larger for elk. Roundball was fine. However, several years ago, Colorado Parks and Wildlife decided for deer, Pronghorn, and bear the minimum projectile weight needed to be 170 grs. This means using a conical for my .44 percussion sidelock. It only shoots a 120 gr. .430" roundball and has a 1/60 or so twist. The groove diameter is .448", and the land diameter is .442". The barrel was made by Miroku in Japan, and has very narrow, beside shallow, lands. I'm thinking a light .45 bullet sized down to the appropriate diameter might work. It would probably stabilize where a heavier mini ball or similar might not with the slow twist barrel. I already cast Lee 200 gr. SWC tumble lube bullets which come out of the mold at .451". It would be easy enough to to make a quick and dirty sizing die on my lathe. I'll use a blackpowder lube and probably a card or fiber wad between the bullet and powder for starters. Has anybody else had this problem or any thoughts on a solution? I appreciate all input.
For what it's worth, I've killed Mulies with both .44 and .54 roundballs. The .44 killed them just as dead and quickly as the .54. My experience makes me think a 170 gr. requirement is a solution for a non existing problem.

We shot LEE minies quite ok in a CVA with 1:66 twist so long as you kept the powder charge up at the top end -- but that rifle took a 440 roundball - the LEE mold is a cheap experiment - I reckon you might get away with it in your barrel but would need to size the slug down - then the lube grooves start to disappear .

[nicholst55]

The 'ballet' was developed for Pennsylvania's 'primitive weapons' season many years ago, as an alternative to using a PRB. I have only seen them in .50. They will stabilize in very slow twist barrels. I dunno how readily available they are, but Track of the Wolf carries them in .50. It might be worth contacting TOTW to see if they're available in other diameters. Go to the link, and scroll down to the bottom of the page.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/129/1

ETA: Midway also carries them; looks like they're made by Hornday. Once again, they appear to only be available in .50.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello nicholst55,

The Buffalo Bullet Company was the manufacture of the Ballet. My brother shot the 380gr in his Zouave, suddenly he couldn't find them. So I did a search and found they were relocating. I registered on their web page for notification about a year ago but haven't heard a word from them. It did state that Dixie Gun Works was going to be the main distributer, so I contacted Dixie and they said they have seen no Ballet's yet.

The Hornady PA Bullet or Great Plains, I believe is only available in .50 caliber.

AntiqueSledMan.

[mooman76]

Ballets can be made with a little work. I seen a mould for sale years back and couldn't figure out at first until some time later when I heard about ballets. Drill the top of the appropriate RB mould into the cavity but no farther with a bore size drill bit. Cast your ballets and then to give your ballets that knurled on the sides role the ballets between two identical files until it raises the lead giving it the knurl.

[brassell31]

I finally turned a bullet punch with the right nose configuration to size down bullets. I sized down Lee REAL 200 gr. bullets and the Lee TL 200 bullets to my .448" bore diameter. Of all things, I used A 6.5 Swede case sizing die to size the bullet. About 1/3 the way into the die was the correct diameter, and I tapped it out with a piece of dowel. A plus (maybe) is that by inserting the back of the bullet into the die first, with the taper of the die, the back of the bullet gets squeezed down smaller than the front make it easier to start in the barrel. I used a 1/16" hard over powder card and a 1/8" felt wad over it, and then loaded the bullet. I am using Lyman Black Powder Gold bullet lube for the time being. The first charge was 50 gr. of Goex 3f. Group size was about 6" at best, but there was no evidence of tumbling, just nice clean round holes. I bumped up to 60 gr. and eventually eliminated the felt wad, getting my best group with the REAL of 3-1/2". The TL 200 would only do 4-6", but I want to try them with a slightly larger size - I felt they went down the bore too easily compared to the REAL bullets, I may have sized them a couple thousands small. Muzzle velocity was about 1530 fps for both. I ran out of bullets and will need to cast more (pure lead again), and try to push them a little faster yet to see the difference. I'll probably try Goex 2f also with the heavier loads. If I can get 3-4" at 100 yds., I'll have a winner.