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Thread: 40 Cal to 44 Mag - Need help, process check

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy Dutchninja's Avatar
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    40 Cal to 44 Mag - Need help, process check

    Ok, i have a desert eagle that does not like my PC bullets nor do i like paying for j words to go blasting with it. I don't use it for hunting and just general shooting and destruction of electronic items that have failed me. That being said I read up on alot of the threads here and watched the videos on youtube just wanted to confirm what i doing was right before expanding operations for production. I only did a few for proof of concept thatworks for me without an excess amount of work to it.

    1 - Took un-sized 40 smith brass and heated via torch till they were orange. I did not SS tumble them afterwards, but I would plan on doing that for production.

    2 - used a plum bob to expand the cases to allow the boolit to fit in. Took one of my PC lee 180 grain and stuffed it in the case using the method mannyCA had on youtube. I think i got the boolit in there far enough. I do not have pure soft lead available but the stuff i'm using is a mix of a lot of different types. some water pipe, some WW, some soft flashing. No i'm not going to fine pure soft lead for this.

    3 - used an 06 die to form the nose and sent it through the lee sizing die afterwards. only the base / web of the case came out the right diameter. should more of the case towards the lip be closer to that? the bullet seamed to taper.

    4 - loaded it up in 44 mag and shot it out of my eagle and redhawk. accuracy was ok but it wasn't under ideal shooting conditions. I did have three primers in the loaded projectile come out. There were three small holes in the cardboard. i did find one of the rounds, that one the primer was missing. Using this for suppressed operations might be problematic with a loose primer.....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Plans for larger production and expansion to other boolits, (45 to 458) i saw that dropping them into a lee pot for 10-15 minutes works per BTsniper, for annealing??? I'm not putting them on a grill or using a turkey fryer, nor am i buying a $800 ceramic oven. I do that and the wife will want to start throwing pots and other crafts.

    Also, if using a lee pot and its the right size boolit for the case, would remelting it in the case work better? Combining, essentially, seating and annealing in one step?

    Any suggestions?



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  2. #2
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    I thought a 243win FL size die was the "redneck" tool to swage .429 jacketed bullets.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    I use a 243win fl die.

    When making blammo ammo/blasting ammo I don't bother annealing the 40s&w cases. Pretty much caveman simple to do.

    Drop desired cast bullet/core into a 40s&w case.
    Use a 40s&w expander or a 41mag expander ( use a 41mag expander) and seat the core. Doing this will expand the case to +/- .430"
    Put the seat core/expanded case into the point forming die and make the bullet.
    Run the formed bullet into a .429" lee push thru sizing die.

    Myself I like to use a Hornady blank forming die to make xtp notches in the nose of the 40s&w cases to make hp's. One of my favorite bullets for the 44mags made from 40s&w cases.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Did testing with those bullets pictured above simulating 75/100yd hits.
    [IMG][/IMG]

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy Dutchninja's Avatar
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    I was using the 06 die as a Test, it was one I had lying around and doubles of.

    Blank forming die! Excellent!!

    Impressive results


    But no annealing at all?

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    The 243 allows the jacket to expand to .452-3 diameter. I do anneal.
    QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES?

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy Dutchninja's Avatar
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    How are you annealing? Anyone using a lead pot?

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Lee 4lp dipper pot. I'm going to switch to induction heating.
    QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchninja View Post
    How are you annealing? Anyone using a lead pot?
    I was using a lyman big dipper until the heating coil burned out. Strongly considering Turning some scrap aluminum to fit tight, and fill the bottom half of the pot.
    To lazy to chase arrows.
    Clodhopper

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Myself I like to use a Hornady blank forming die to make xtp notches in the nose of the 40s&w cases to make hp's. One of my favorite bullets for the 44mags made from 40s&w cases
    tell me more about this blank forming die. is it a die for crimping blanks? how does it form the hollow point?

  10. #10
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    This is what a notching/blank die looks like:



    They don't form the hollowpoint. What they do is produce the notching of the jacket, similar to a Hornady XTP JHP bullet.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  11. #11
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    This is another view of the same die, which in this case is a CH4D Blank forming Die:



    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  12. #12
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    This is one of BTSniper's early notching dies, which includes a rounding punch for forming the nose of the bullet:



    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy


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    Hey Fred, out of curiosity, would you use the rounding over die before or after notching? I currently just use the Hornady Blank crimp die and I do not a nice rolled over look.

  14. #14
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    I swage with CH Swaging dies and the point form die produces a perfectly formed bullet, so I've never had the need to use the rounding die for that purpose. I've used it for other things, but not that.

    Here are the steps I use:



    These were done on my big Hollywood press, but I've since obtained a Corbin CSP-1 swaging press and I'm now able to close the point a little more to make the bullet closer to what the Hornady XTP looks like.

    Here's my old setup:



    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy


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    Thanks Fred, looks I may just need to close the crimp tighter before point forming. it has been a while since I broke out the swaging gear.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    thanks Fred, that does help a ton!

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy

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    We dont use the term "jwords" over here! or, "boolits" ok, boolits is fine but not jwords. its "JACKETS" or "JACKETED"

    I'm just joking. who ever started the jword thing anyway

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy

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    Fred, why cant you close the nose with the rock chucker? I can destroy the bullet with my chucker. my A-2 can really do a number on it.
    Are you using harder lead cores?

  19. #19
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    I'm making hollowpoint bullets, so I don't really want them to close up too much, or they won't open up when they hit something. I mashed the ram on my Rockchucker swaging bullets, and RCBS sent me a new one. I was at the limit of what the Rockchucker could do, and the Hollywood did an even better job, but the Corbin CSP-1 does it best.

    My cores are BHN 5, which is about as soft as I can cast.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy

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    Thats what happens to the A-2 when you use the reloading seaction of the ram. because of the priming slot, the ram gets severly weakened and it collapses. I machined a solid ram for the press so you can really push it.

    Which Rockchucker do you have? mine is made in 72' it has a 1" ram.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check