ADvertise hereTitan ReloadingWidenersInline Fabrication
MidSouth Shooters SupplyLee PrecisionRotoMetals2Repackbox

Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: How to determine correct impact velocity for WFNGC designs ?

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Pensacola , FL
    Posts
    94

    How to determine correct impact velocity for WFNGC designs ?

    I'm sure much of this depends on caliber / alloy / intended range & game . Let me state what I wish to do & let you gents tell me what you think about how to get there . My primary game is feral hogs in medium to heavy cover @ max 100yds , majority will probably be shorter . Calibers will be 357 mag , 357 Max , 41 mag & 44 mag . With the exception of the 41 rest are T/C Encores with MGM 20" barrels , 41 is a Henry BBS . Twist rates are 1 in 16" for both 357's , 1 in 18.75" for the 41 & 1 in 20" for the 44 . I want pass thru & be able to take shoulder shots as crawling thru the bushes after a wounded hog aint on my bucket list . Alloy to start is ACWW.
    1) 357 mag with LBT / NOE 180 WFNGC from a 20" barrel 1700 to 1800fps is possible & this bullet should work well at that speed I believe . I'm probably harder alloywise than I need but until I've gained experience with this load I can see going softer won't hurt within reason .
    2) 357 Max with same 180 from a 20" wow 2200 is possible but I believe might be too much with this bullet . Am seriously considering a 200 to keep velocity down some . With the 180 might be better served with a little faster or slower powder choice to also keep speed in check hmmm .
    3) 41 mag also from a 20" . Levergun so I went with a LBT 240 LFNGC & I also have some 240 WFNGC ( if they'll chamber ? ) The LFN chambers & feeds . I believe 1700 is doable & both bullets should work at that speed .
    4) 44 mag with LBT 260 WFNGC out a 20" I believe 1700fps is possible , but is that too fast ? Would 1500 work better ? If so again would it be better to use a faster like Enforcer or a case full of slower like 1680 , RL7 etc. ?
    Maybe I'm overthinking all this but with cast sometimes slower kills faster . Jacketed just the opposite if you match bullet to game intended .
    Last edited by boatbum101; 05-12-2020 at 04:34 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    375RUGER's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    1,638
    You gave a lot of good information except what alloy you are using.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. H.L. Mencken

  3. #3
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Pensacola , FL
    Posts
    94
    Sorry went back & added that . ACWW to start is easiest for me . Can adjust down the road .

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
    Dinny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gloucester, VA
    Posts
    122
    Personally I see no reason to push any of your bullets past 1800fps at those ranges. I shoot powdercoated bullets and have recently cast them from dead soft pure lead. There might not be a better killer than a soft alloy and a wide meplat!

    Thanks, Dinny
    I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace.

    Thomas Paine

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    3,195
    Since when can a bullet become too fast to be effective? Inside of 100 yards the ballistic coefficient of the bullet will not have a huge impact on final velocity. For example, lets say a 250 grain 44 bullet starts at 1600 fps, with a BC of .14, which would be rather typical. At 100 yards it would be traveling about 1208 fps. If we took that same bullet and said it had a BC of .2, which would be spectacular, although not likely for a 250 grain, it would end up at about 1308 fps at 100 yards.

    If you are worried that the velocity may expand the bullet and reduce the penetration, the solution is simple. Quench the bullets. If I were you, I wouldn't do anything but find the most accurate possible load for those rifles.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    807
    i wouldn't say you need to lower speed for anything unless its for accuracy. with acww and a wide flat point expansion will probably just begin at around 1300 so the speeds your talking youd probably get wide mushrooms so the only question is it so wide that your getting less penetration than you want. maybe the faster ones you could quench or for a middle ground mix half with pure and quench. if you can test with water jugs you could decide 3 jugs is enough or whatever and base hardness by what gets that amount.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    107
    Veral wrote a book about it.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy gunarea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    North Central Florida
    Posts
    177
    Hey boatbum101
    dhom gave you the definitive answer! My home nearer central Florida is feral pig central. We kill them wholesale. You are absolutely correct! Overthinking. Here is the secret. Bigger is better. In 357, 200gr @12 to 14 hundred fps kills them DIT. In larger calibers, bigger not faster, is most effective. My personal choice is 44 mag. A Keith 429421 at 1250 from an old model super Blackhawk puts them down regardless of precise placement. They are animals and have no magical power protecting them. Lousy shots and adrenaline rushes give the pig its mystic abilities. Granted a pig is more fearsome than a deer, but it is an animal. Go kill a dozen or so and they don't loom so dangerous. I know.
    Roy
    Shoot often, Shoot well.

  9. #9
    Vendor Sponsor


    DougGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    just above Raleigh North Carolina
    Posts
    5,639
    Use the most boolit you can shoot accurately. Gunarea hit the nail on the head. WFN is already a lethal choice. Use the biggest meplat you can find. LBT and similar are the best wide meplat designs for nailing a game animal to the planet beneath it's hooves.

    Personally I shoot handguns and my choices in velocity are to be right at or just under 1200fps when it hits hide. I don't plan on recovering any boolits, there won't be a ton of expansion, maybe none, but there will be a complete pass thru and a 44 caliber boolit is already the size of a smaller boolit expanded when it starts out. I also don't own anything for close range thick woods hunting that doesn't start with a 4, so I see absolutely no place for anything smaller in hunting pigs. Dirty Harry didn't carry a 44 because he thought the larger bore made the barrel lighter. If you don't want to go after a wounded animal, my suggestion would be leave the 35 calibers at home. Not that they won't kill, but the odds of a quick kill from a devastating wound channel drop considerably with lesser boolits.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throat reaming? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Shoot me a PM! Also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhone-756429174391912/

  10. #10
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Cooperstown, NY
    Posts
    931
    Quote Originally Posted by gunarea View Post
    Hey boatbum101
    dhom gave you the definitive answer! My home nearer central Florida is feral pig central. We kill them wholesale. You are absolutely correct! Overthinking. Here is the secret. Bigger is better. In 357, 200gr @12 to 14 hundred fps kills them DIT. In larger calibers, bigger not faster, is most effective. My personal choice is 44 mag. A Keith 429421 at 1250 from an old model super Blackhawk puts them down regardless of precise placement. They are animals and have no magical power protecting them. Lousy shots and adrenaline rushes give the pig its mystic abilities. Granted a pig is more fearsome than a deer, but it is an animal. Go kill a dozen or so and they don't loom so dangerous. I know.
    Roy
    Yes , I totally agree with Verel Smiths formula for DV . It has worked wonderfully.

    WWG1WGA,

    Ken
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Je suis Charlie
    Remember Lavoy!
    I'll cling to my God and my guns, and you can keep the "Change".

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    375RUGER's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    1,638
    Straight WW will work just fine. Me I'd likely cut in pure PB, some even add a little tin. After you find an accurate load -Soak up some wet news print, or use gallon jugs of water lined up, or clay blocks or live hogs, and start shooting. This will give you the empirical data you seek to answer your question about what happens on impact.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. H.L. Mencken

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Dyer, Tn
    Posts
    1,148
    An ACWW .41 cal 255 @ 1300 will go through a 230# boar from most angles so your 240 gr ought to be a honker

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    NE Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,253
    WFN is a fantastic design I have shot at least 100 deer using that design 376 diameter to 475 Linebaugh they are lethal but 99% of the time 1200-1800 FPS resulted in less than 40 yards of ground after impact most were bang flop.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    807
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramjet-SS View Post
    WFN is a fantastic design I have shot at least 100 deer using that design 376 diameter to 475 Linebaugh they are lethal but 99% of the time 1200-1800 FPS resulted in less than 40 yards of ground after impact most were bang flop.
    with expansion or to hard to expand from the velocities?

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    625
    Using calibers ranging from 41mag up to 454 i have used cast Keith type or WFN type cast to smite plenty of feral hogs. Most, if not all, were cast with straight WW or similar alloy.

    My velocity ranges from around 1150fps up to 1550'ish for the 454. I've never recovered a cast cast bullet to date, they just don't stop. Shots have ranged from hair burning close to out past 80yds or so with equal results, bang, flop with the occasional somersault or two thrown in for giggles when they are in full sprint mode.

    I have loaded and carried my GP100's with 160ish grain slugs but usually only when we were chasing dogs. No need for the big boomers up close where the added power isn't needed. Usually the shots are within a foot or so and placed in behind or between the ears.

    I'd say load for accuracy like the rest and let the lead fly. BTW- don't worry one bit about over harvesting them hogs, no way you gonna even dent the population, but DO try as hard as you can.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    NE Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,253
    Quote Originally Posted by bmortell View Post
    with expansion or to hard to expand from the velocities?
    My alloy mix is 16 lbs plumbers lead to 2 lbs Linotype it’s actually pretty soft.

    I will be doing some testing of some 275 grain WFN in wet news print with my Henry Original 45 LC and a real nice WFN CG at around 1200.

    That said I have a 420 Grain 476 diameter LBT mound for the 480 Ruger and that will penetrate with this formula through 48” of water soaked news print and magazines.

    I will tell you this; even driven fast and I have driven a 255 grain WFN from a 375 GNR #2 running 2400 FPS and it dropped a one horn 4 point in its tracks the internal damage was pretty darn extensive to the lungs and heart.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    Posts
    18,003
    "Maybe I'm overthinking all this"...……

    Yup...…...
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check