Is it me or do you guys get it?

[curioushooter]

One aspersion that is complete rubbish as far as I am concerned regarding cast boolits is they "foul up the barrel." To this I reply that so do jacketed bullets, and copper fouling is 10x harder to remove.

The vast, vast majority of rifles I've bought used that were shot were caked up with copper fouling to the point their accuracy was diminished. This is a common phenomenon with new barrels as they aren't smoothed up yet, and it is one of the reasons I like to buy used.

Copper fouling has to be removed chemically by toxic, foul smelling, corrosive solvents that are unpleasant to use and expensive. They are also all corrosive to the point that if they get into places you don't want them they will do damage. Lead fouling if not too bad is so easily removed as to be trivial. Sometimes I get a little and just push a bronze brush and some hoppes 9 down the barrel and it's gone...along with the carbon. If it's really bad a copper chore boy and bronze brush is used. Still it takes a fraction of the time and hoppes 9 is nothing like Barnes CR10 or Sweet's 7.62 which are needed to really remove copper.

For handguns and straight wall rifles it is my contention that cast bullets perform as well or better than anything jacketed. It may take a little fiddling, and it is true that JHPs in handguns have a slight advantage as far as terminal ballistics go (due to the toughness of the jacket allowing a greater range of impact velocities where the bullet will perform well) but if you handload and are basically a hunter it matters little. You can adjust velocity and hardness, etc. to suit the task.

[rintinglen]

^Amen.
I bought my Winchester 71 for a very affordable price because the bore actually had verdigris growing off the layer of copper. The bore appeared to be totally shot. Two hours over several days, generous amounts of Hoppe's Number Nine, and a great deal of effort pumping brushes back and forth revealed a pristine expanse of steel in that barrel. It has seen 10 cast lead boolits for every jacketed or "other" bullet since then.
But back on topic, I knew only, at most, 2 dozen boolit casters out of some 350 members at the club I formerly belonged to. From time to time, I'd get some curious looks at my"steel-jacketed" 06 rounds.

[Winger Ed.]

The bore appeared to be totally shot. Two hours over several days, generous amounts of Hoppe's Number Nine,

Years ago, I got a CMP Garand that the bore looked like a pipe.
The guy sold it cheap, because the barrel was worn out although he had never cleaned it.

As a project, I cleaned it with only wet patches of Hoppe's #9 every day or two.
I ended up with almost a 1 gallon zip-lock bag full of green patches, but several weeks later- it looked new again.

[LeadRecycler]

At both of the clubs I'm a member at, any brass that is not snagged by a reloader goes to the scrap metal business for cash. At the one club that I do the recycling, I've put several THOUSAND dollars back into the club to pay for upkeep/improvements.

Why not get some volunteers to sort that brass, and offer it up for sale here? I'm betting you'll get far more than scrap value. One club I'm a member of sells the brass off the range to reloaders. I've offered to rebuild the berms for free, if I can keep the lead. Any payout above my costs would be split with the club.

[charlie b]

Copper fouling has to be removed chemically by toxic, foul smelling, corrosive solvents that are unpleasant to use and expensive. They are also all corrosive to the point that if they get into places you don't want them they will do damage. Lead fouling if not too bad is so easily removed as to be trivial. Sometimes I get a little and just push a bronze brush and some hoppes 9 down the barrel and it's gone...along with the carbon. If it's really bad a copper chore boy and bronze brush is used. Still it takes a fraction of the time and hoppes 9 is nothing like Barnes CR10 or Sweet's 7.62 which are needed to really remove copper.

You need to try some KG12. Not much smell and for me it works faster than Sweet's or even straight ammonia.

[megasupermagnum]

One aspersion that is complete rubbish as far as I am concerned regarding cast boolits is they "foul up the barrel." To this I reply that so do jacketed bullets, and copper fouling is 10x harder to remove.

The vast, vast majority of rifles I've bought used that were shot were caked up with copper fouling to the point their accuracy was diminished. This is a common phenomenon with new barrels as they aren't smoothed up yet, and it is one of the reasons I like to buy used.

Copper fouling has to be removed chemically by toxic, foul smelling, corrosive solvents that are unpleasant to use and expensive. They are also all corrosive to the point that if they get into places you don't want them they will do damage. Lead fouling if not too bad is so easily removed as to be trivial. Sometimes I get a little and just push a bronze brush and some hoppes 9 down the barrel and it's gone...along with the carbon. If it's really bad a copper chore boy and bronze brush is used. Still it takes a fraction of the time and hoppes 9 is nothing like Barnes CR10 or Sweet's 7.62 which are needed to really remove copper.

For handguns and straight wall rifles it is my contention that cast bullets perform as well or better than anything jacketed. It may take a little fiddling, and it is true that JHPs in handguns have a slight advantage as far as terminal ballistics go (due to the toughness of the jacket allowing a greater range of impact velocities where the bullet will perform well) but if you handload and are basically a hunter it matters little. You can adjust velocity and hardness, etc. to suit the task.

Finally someone agrees with me. I have NEVER had lead fouling that I would consider horrible to remove. Even loads that I knew would lead a barrel, as in full power 44 magnums with near pure lead only to see what would happen. I own a Lewis lead remover, but have not used it but one or two times since I bought it. A brass or copper brush with some copper chore boy will remove lead fouling in no time. It's not like you sit there for hours scrubbing. I have yet to spend more than 15-20 minutes cleaning a badly fouled barrel. Once you learn to size bullets, and at least get the alloy semi-close (anything from 20-1 to linotype works fine in nearly anything), cleaning can be done with nothing but patches.

As for copper fouling, what a mess. Sure, you can always ignore it. My 6mm Remington was a nightmare. I'm not exaggerating that it took DAYS of soaking then scrubbing, over and over until I finally got to bare metal. As long as you stay on top of the cleaning, you don't have to clean so thoroughly, but someone had obviously shot this rifle for years or decades and never once cleaned it. It builds up layers of copper and carbon that can't be removed without ammonia.

Also, lubed bullets lube your bore. No need to worry about rust.

[curioushooter]

Hoppe's 9 is a poor copper remover. It will do it, but takes forever. I've tried sweets and cr10 and hoppes bemchrest cr. The sweets and cr10 are no joke.

The worst fouling I've encountered was a Swiss k31 that had never been cleaned stateside and shot with that stupid cupro-nickel jacketed Swiss ammo. That stuff doesn't want to come out and hoppes 9 is one of few solvents that attacks nickel. It took a week and I had a bag I patches when done. My friend bought a Ruger mini 30 that had been shot much and rapidly with oversized (311) jacketed ammo and the bore looked like it was a pencil gauge shotgun. Took a week of commercials for sweets to do the job. If he was using hoppes well, he'd be doing it still probably.

[megasupermagnum]

Hoppe's #9 is very mild, which is why I like it so much. It is as good as anything for powder/primer fouling, also works decent for lead, and is mildly effective for copper. Hoppe's copper fouling cleaner is nasty stuff. I liked that Wipeout in a can. It was safe to leave sit in a barrel. On that 6mm I would spray it in the barrel, and it foamed up to fill. I would come back the next morning, wipe it out, and do it again. Every time I did it I got the brightest blue patches you ever saw. After 3 or 4 days of that, I finally started to get clean patches. That reminds me of one problem with Hoppe's copper fouling cleaner, and other aggressive ammonia cleaners. Even a clean barrel can leave blue patches because the stuff is so aggressive it leaves a blue false positive patch from the brass jag.

[44Blam]

So, I've been able to reach out and thump steel targets at 400 yards consistently with my Marlin 1895 and my NOE 460-396-RF boolits under some varget. This is with Skinner sights. I just got a Montana vernier sight...
I think I'll sight that thing in and do a video. Will call my video "Thumping the bleep out of that steel plate at 880 yards." Just give me a couple weeks.

At one outdoor pistol range I go to is 50 yards and has steel out there. And another one I go to is 100 yards with steel all over the place. I typically shoot at short and as far as it goes range and I shoot lead boolits. When I've been out there with my buddies we play a funny game of "Horse" where you call your shots and the next guy has to do it too. "One to the cowboy, one to the hog, and three to the gong at the end of the lot."

[44Blam]

But honestly, cast boolits with proper fit are more accurate than the factory J-word bullets in normal shooting.

Where J-words start to really do better is under very high pressure, velocity and RPM.

[bangerjim]

I always get OOHS ans AAHS at the ranges when people see me shooting those rainbow colored boolits I make! And then when they find out about light loading that does not dislocate your shoulder.....they are even more fascinated.

But what we do takes a significant initial investment and an ever-growing continual investment (!!).....at least for me. Sit back and figure all the $$ you have invested into casting, molds, presses, dies, and mics goodies you use every day. And the space to do it all in. Many folks will not go that route and just shell out tons of money at gun stores for pre-loads.

It's more of a hobby than a money-saving thing for most of us.

To each his own!

bangerjim

[dverna]

I shoot jacketed rifle bullets because they perform better
I would shoot cast rifle bullets to save money for long range fun.
I would cast my own rifle bullets to save money.
Since finding Hornady bulk 55gr SP bullets for $420/6000....I lost any incentive to cast for rifles

I shoot cast pistol bullets to save money
I cast pistol bullets to save money

If I could purchase cast pistol bullets for $2.50/lb, I would not cast.

I have never found any advantages to using cast bullets except to save money. That is why casting is not popular. Most “normal” people will not consider any aspect of casting fun.

BTW, I have rifle bullet molds and plan on adding one more for the .30/30’s. I hope to never need them. They are for SHTF.

The examples some posted about outshooting users of jacketed bullets are silly. It was not the arrow, it was the Indian.

[curioushooter]

Regarding Hoppe's #9:

works decent for lead, and is mildly effective for copper.

No solvent I've tried does anything to lead. I took enough chemistry in college. Lead is a fairly inert metal and the things that will corrode it also corrode steel (or are very, very toxic and unusable). Lead is removed by mechanical action (brushing, scraping, rubbing). Any effect you think the Hoppe's is having in lead is mistaken for the effect the patch/brush is having.

Hoppe's copper fouling cleaner is nasty stuff. I liked that Wipeout in a can. It was safe to leave sit in a barrel.

Anything effective will be corrosive to a degree, and therefore cannot be left in the barrel too long. All the solvents that are effective on copper to my knowledge are ammonia-based. They put in other stuff too to help it out, but ammonia is what is corroding the copper. If something is marketed as ultra safe to me that says it is ultra slow/ineffective. There is no free lunch in chemistry. Ammonia is very mildly corrosive to steel and also to wood/plastic/nickel/copper-alloys like bronze and brass. A great way to ruin a nickel plated firearm is to leave ammonia-containing solvents on it.

One of the reasons I like Hoppes9 is because it is mild and very effective on carbon-fouling. It does remove a little copper (like from gas checks) if there is any. It is great for cast bullet solvent for this reason. It is a poor copper remover. Hoppes Benchrest CR is better, but still not as aggressive as CR10 or Sweets.

Anything claiming to be a cleaner - lubricant - protectant is useless at at least one of those jobs if not all three. They are mutually exclusive tasks. Any good cleaner will not be persistant and therefore a poor protectant, and probably a poor lubricant. Anything that is a good lubricant or protectant will be an useless cleaner.

Hoppes#9 and 3-in-one with silcone have done the job for me better than about anything else. If I want to store something long term Fluid Film or LPS3 are the best protectants.

Hornady One Shot Cleaner and Lubricant is a useless cleaner and a good lubricant and ok protecant. But it is in a can and expensive. I only use it when I need to use a spray can.

[megasupermagnum]

Hoppe's doesn't work well on lead because it dissolves it. It works well because it is thin and can get underneath it. Any kind of penetrating oil can do the same. I've also found that for your run of the mill lead fouling, no cleaner works best. A well fitting dry cotton patch pushes nearly all lead out in a pass or two.

As for the Wipeout cleaner, yes it is weak. It takes hours of working to do any real cleaning. What scares me about strong ammonia cleaners, is that I get distracted. There has been many times I've intended to let the cleaner work for only a couple minutes, and go to the bathroom, or clean another gun, or whatever. Then only to find myself an hour later in a panic realizing my mistake.

[curioushooter]

Hoppe's doesn't work well on lead because it dissolves it. It works well because it is thin and can get underneath it. Any kind of penetrating oil can do the same.

This is true. What removes it is mechanical action. This is why a cotton patch/jag with hoppes followed by a bronze brush and repeated if necessary is so effective. Long ago I switched to using nickel plated brass tipton jags. They are much better than plain brass because you can tell if you are removing fouling from the barrel and not confuse it with the solvent destroying the jag. Nylon jags are great too though often break. Hoppes9 is mildly corrosive to plastics BTW. It is added to help with shotgun wad fouling. Hoppes9 is an all-purpose cleaner so be mindful of that.

What scares me about strong ammonia cleaners, is that I get distracted. There has been many times I've intended to let the cleaner work for only a couple minutes, and go to the bathroom, or clean another gun, or whatever

Same here. Don't ask why I know that Hoppe's will ruin a nickel plated firearm.

[tankgunner59]

The same here. When I tell folks at the range that I make my own bullets they think I'm only talking about reloading. I get, Oh you probably pick up a lot of brass, or the like. Then I show them my colored bullets and they freak, Where did you get those? When I tell them I cast my own out of lead alloys either they want to know how, at which time I refer them here. Or they tell me that's too dangerous for me. That's when I tell them, well you don't do it while you're watching TV. It's a dedicated hobby and as long as you pay close attention to what you're doing it is safe.

[charlie b]

So, I'll mention it again. Try KG12 for copper removal. From what I understand (and the lack of smell) it is not ammonia based (it does not leave blue residue on the patches). And, it works faster. I do not know what it contains but you can watch it work as the copper disappears in the barrel. 30-60 seconds per application and it usually takes me 5 to 10 applications to completely clean the copper from the bore (I clean out the copper every 200 rounds or so). That's about 15 to 20 minutes, not hours.

I do keep some ammonia around to check that I have got all the copper out.

[15meter]

Why not get some volunteers to sort that brass, and offer it up for sale here? I'm betting you'll get far more than scrap value. One club I'm a member of sells the brass off the range to reloaders. I've offered to rebuild the berms for free, if I can keep the lead. Any payout above my costs would be split with the club.

The good stuff gets re-distributed to other reloaders at the club, the Blazer/odd head stamp/rimfire/berdan/stuff not many people reload goes to the scrap yard.

Some of the brass is worth more as scrap than it can be sold for. Not into more work for less cash.

[725]

Have had at least one encounter with all the experiences listed on this thread. Some are surprised, some curious, some doubtful & some steadfast nay sayers. Reminds me of Will Rogers observation that (paraphrase here) that some can learn by listening, some can learn by reading, but some just have to pee on the electric fence to find out for themselves. I can tell my good friends and fellow shooters that cast is a marvelous addition to the shooting sports and that in it's realm out-performs jacketed, and they just nod pleasingly. I know they don't believe me, but when I get one shot stops and they have multiple shots on game, they rationalize events with "running shot", "turned at the trigger pull", "windy", etc. Sure.

[444ttd]

i don't have to go to gun clubs or a state run gun range. i have a range at my house and another range in my dad's shop. 50, 100, 150, 200 all the up to 500 yards. i used to be able to shoot j-words at 500 yards, but that got boring and expensive. 8 or 9 years ago, i "found" Cast Boolits and i decided "what the h-e-double hockey sticks". i was and is a "new guy". i cast boolits and i buy boolits. the only j-words i buy is a 34gr hp for my 20 vartarg. i hunt deer and black bear(somewhat) and i like to shoot alot. my younger brother is a big believer in 45-70 gummy tips and 270 win ballistic tips. he likes the "grenade effect" on deer. i, on the other hand, believe in penetration, the "thru-n-thru effect". i don't like recoil, he does. i like old rifles, he likes new rifles. i'm a wood and blued steel guy, he's a black plastic and stainless steel guy. i like the craftsmanship, he's a right now guy.

on gun cleaning, i despise it, i loathe it, i.......ugh!!! i use gunslicks foaming bore cleaner(i think its discontinued) to take it to bare steel. i spent 6 or 7 days to clean out the bore on the 1898 spr armory(30-40 krag). you put gunslicks in the bore and it foams. an hour later, you go to the nylon brush and rifle loop patches. then its gunslicks and wait a hour........i did that 8 - 10 hours each day. then the blue patches came out clean. that almost made me go back to j-words. the black gunk, copper, black gunk, cupronickel and black gunk.......did i mention black gunk. i've used gunslicks for years, but its only 2 or 3 times to clean a barrel (copper) to bare steel. i used it in my 91 mauser, 93 mauser, 96 mauser and 98 mauser. come to think about, my rifles bores are clean and shiny. must be the gas checks and the tight fitting boolits.