RotoMetals2Lee PrecisionWidenersMidSouth Shooters Supply
ADvertise hereRepackboxTitan ReloadingInline Fabrication

Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Teach me about proper stock fit on heavy recoiling bolt guns

  1. #1
    Boolit Master corbinace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    North Central Washington
    Posts
    614

    Teach me about proper stock fit on heavy recoiling bolt guns

    Are there any specific considerations for length of pull or comb height or angle for mitigating recoil? I know there is a lot of magic in having the right stock for shot gunners. But, I don't know anything about that recipe either.

    I have several bolt rifles that are all different configurations and I cannot really compare them as they are in different cartridges. I mostly shoot moderate loads anyway, but an now considering a more powerful rifle, 9.3X62mm.

    One thing I like is a shorter length of pull, so that I can operate the bolt without taking the rifle out of my shoulder.
    I am very short, so operating the bolt on my shoulder means a real short stock, 12 inch LOP on several. (Several lever guns that short too.) This means the rear of the bolt almost touches my nose on chambering the next round.

    Why is 14" LOP the industry standard? Simply because the majority of the world is taller than me?

    Can I get away with this short stock with heavy recoil, or does the geometry get messed up and start to physically hurt you?

    Feel free to send me off to a link or book to learn, if you know of such a resource.

    Thank you for the help.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just outside Gun Barrel City, Texas
    Posts
    2,556
    The most important thing I've learned about heavy recoiling rifles is pull it in to your shoulder real tight,
    keeping your cheek bone on top of the stock tightly, and for extreme cases-
    sew a common, square, kitchen hot pad on your shirt or jacket.

    Yep. Factory stocks are usually made for the 'average' person,
    who is 5' 10", and weighs 160 pounds.
    It wasn't playing the blame game, finding fault, and complaining about every little thing that made America great.
    It was God, guns, and guts.


    OK folks. Enough of this idle chit-chat. This ain't your Grandma's sewing circle.
    EVERYONE !!
    Get back to your oars. The Captain wants to water ski.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Cooperstown, NY
    Posts
    934
    What Winger said. OP you may get a better response to your rifle stock questions in a different section of this Forum, such as Factory rifles or Special projects.

    Ken
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Je suis Charlie
    Remember Lavoy!
    I'll cling to my God and my guns, and you can keep the "Change".

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy

    NC_JEFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Ellenboro, NC
    Posts
    390
    I sighted in a 300 Wby mag for a guy last fall on a Vangaurd setup. Totally to much bullet on a lightweight Vangaurd setup. Shoulder black and blue and a forehead cut was what I got for my efforts. A good recoil pad and scope adjustment for eye relief made a world of difference. The gun still recoil terrible, I just don't suffer because of it now. I don't mind shooting a boomer but you gotta have something between you and the plastic butt plate.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy davidheart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    South US
    Posts
    467
    Quote Originally Posted by Winger Ed. View Post
    The most important thing I've learned about heavy recoiling rifles is pull it in to your shoulder real tight,
    keeping your cheek bone on top of the stock tightly, and for extreme cases-
    sew a common, square, kitchen hot pad on your shirt or jacket.
    I'll second this. Make sure the stock is firmly planted in your shoulder and your cheek is not floating. The use of a sling could help pull the stock into your shoulder and keep the rifle managed under recoil.
    He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High Will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. -Psalm 91:1

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    N/E Oklahoma
    Posts
    238
    In honor of mother's day, sit up straight! When you're at the bench, which is where we usually notice recoil, get the rifle high off the bench. The goal is to be sitting up straight and not leaning into the rifle. If you're sitting up straight, your body is free to be pushed back duri0ng recoil. If your leaning over, the recoil has to push on your shoulder to lift you up before it can push you back. I read that when they regulated the big British double rifles they did it at a standing bench which was a post with a flat board on top. Basically a front rest. This allowed the entire body to move and absorb the recoil.
    Siamese4570

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    4,257
    LOP needs to be comfortable. No arm stretching or cramping to "get into the gun".

    No neck stretching or cramping to see the sight/scope. When you close your eyes and mount the gun, the eye should be perfectly positioned to view the sight/scope.

    The comb geometry must prevent the comb slapping into the check bone. Looking down from the top, the comb should angle slightly away from the check as the gun recoils. For a right handed shooter that mean the front of the comb is slightly to the right of. See below:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1000149.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	57.4 KB 
ID:	261915

    From the side, the comb must also slope up from front to back so the front of the comb does not recoil into the cheek bone. See below:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1000146.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	62.0 KB 
ID:	261914

    I am recoil sensitive and can shoot over 1200 rounds during a trap event with no issues at all. I have never had a bruised check. My stock moves away from my face every shot. An adjustable comb is great but not needed. Files and sandpaper will get the job done. The advantage of the adjustable comb is I can make minor tweaks as I lose/gain weight and fullness of the face.

    On the .300 Win Mag I added a quality muzzle brake and it recoils like a .243. I cannot think of a more effective solution IF you do not care about muzzle blast.

    On the trap gun pictured, I also added a recoil reducer (not shown) that minimizes shoulder impact, but it is not cheap ($500). One nice feature is I can adjust LOP so the gun fits perfectly with anything from a t-shirt to winter coat. Even a better aftermarket pad can help.

    Lastly, adding weight helps a lot. It is a cheap way to reduce recoil but the downside for a hunting gun is having to carry it over hill and dale.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    coastal north carolina
    Posts
    1,084
    I have been building stocks for 60 some years. There are opinions and there is experience. Most people would shoot better with a shorter stock. You want the scope positioned far enough ahead you have to crawl the stock, scope mounted as low as it will go without touching the barrel. You don't want more comb than you are comfortable with, and not a lot of drop in the butt. The cheekpiece should be shaped so it doesn't bite your face as it recoils up and back. The Monte Carlo and cheekpiece are not really neccessary and more for looks. I think Kennedy designed the earlier Ruger stocks and the model 70 stocks are designed similar. If you shorten the length of pull, maybe thin the comb, these stocks are designed right. You can, have a muzzle brake installed or cut into the barrel, but the muzzle blast is uncomfortable and the add ons, don't improve the looks. The older you get, the less you like heavy, hard recoiling rifles. You shoot better with lower recoil, and you can reduce the weight of the rifle. I have my choice of most of the standard calibers, and a lot of wildcats I almost exclusively use a .260 with a featherweight barrel. 120 grain bullet, I never chronographed it, but it's a death ray and doesn't kill on both ends.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy Win94ae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    373
    Quote Originally Posted by siamese4570 View Post
    In honor of mother's day, sit up straight! When you're at the bench, which is where we usually notice recoil, get the rifle high off the bench. The goal is to be sitting up straight and not leaning into the rifle. If you're sitting up straight, your body is free to be pushed back duri0ng recoil. If your leaning over, the recoil has to push on your shoulder to lift you up before it can push you back. I read that when they regulated the big British double rifles they did it at a standing bench which was a post with a flat board on top. Basically a front rest. This allowed the entire body to move and absorb the recoil.
    Siamese4570
    Yep! That is why I cringe when dudes have their girlfriend shoot their shotgun, then decide to help them by bracing behind their shoulders!

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    11,662
    A fitted stock makes recoil much easier to handle.. My match rifles are fitted with adjustable comb and butt plates so they van be fitted for each position. Standing , sitting and prone all are slightly different. Another area is cast of the stock this allows a straighter head neck position allowing the rifle to sit in the shoulder and in front of the face/eye. I have a Tubbs stock on my model 70 match rifle with the cast off in the wrist/ butt stock. It is very comfortable to shoot and the sights are right there in front of the eye naturally. It also has the adjustable cheek piece and butt stock, up, down, cant, and length of pull. When set for the shooter it just seems like the rifle is doing all the work.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    3,317
    I’m the same with everyone else here. I hold my 375 RUM extremely tight to my shoulder with my cheek planted on the stock and make sure I am standing up, leaning forward, and shooting free hand...not on the bench. That way your body moves with the recoil. Shooting it off the bench would probably break a collarbone. Either way it’s still purples my shoulder after about 25 rounds.

    I’ve shot it in my lead sled and had my lead sled come back and bruise my shoulder.


    It doesn’t make me flinch but it’s not a gun you want to shoot a lot or very often. I have no issues shooting my 300 rum, 35 whelen, and 10 gauges but that 375 RUM will put a hurting on you. I had a KDF brake installed on it after my first purpling and I can’t feel and difference with it on or off.

    I shot a couple of deer in a group with it years ago. I was sitting in a small wooden hunting shack. I used a 260 grain Nosler Accubond loaded at 3000 FPS. I’ve seen deer drop quicker with a lot less firepower...and my shoulder hurt for over a week besides not hearing for a few days.

    I do have a grind to fit limbsaver pad installed on my 336 chambered in 35 Rem. I had it installed Years ago for my pops. It’s still pushes you back but just doesn’t beat up your shoulder. I need one for the 375.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 05-10-2020 at 08:39 PM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master corbinace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    North Central Washington
    Posts
    614
    Wow, thank you for the great tutorial gentlemen.

    The reason for this rifle is a semi-local match designed for Safari rifles. Since I do not have any rifles like that and would like to shoot the match, I am thinking about this 9.3x62 rifle. What better excuse for a new to me toy.

    This is a short video of the match...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjhqSQRSpqs

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    Posts
    18,117
    Quote Originally Posted by flounderman View Post
    ……….. Most people would shoot better with a shorter stock. You want the scope positioned far enough ahead you have to crawl the stock, scope mounted as low as it will go without touching the barrel. You don't want more comb than you are comfortable with, and not a lot of drop in the butt. The cheekpiece should be shaped so it doesn't bite your face as it recoils up and back. The Monte Carlo and cheekpiece are not really necessary and more for looks. I think Kennedy designed the earlier Ruger stocks and the model 70 stocks are designed similar. If you shorten the length of pull, maybe thin the comb, these stocks are designed right. ……...
    ^^^^^^^ nailed it!
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  14. #14
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    The Pacific NorthWet
    Posts
    2,597
    If your gun comes with a factory butt plate that has too-tall raised letters on the back {so when you fire it, you imprint that into your shoulder,} get ANY sort of padding as soon as you can, better yet a replacement butt pad.

    (Yes, I'm looking at you, "IthacaGun" hard plastic shotgun butt pad.)

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    11,662
    It used to be some stock makers had "try Stocks that were fully adjustable. your barreled action went in and it was set to comfortable. a few rounds fired and fine adjustments made till it was just right. The stock maker then put tape over seams and gaps. into the duplicator and your stock made from the chosen blank. Another was to build up a cheap stock with fillers to where it was just right and send it to the stock maker to duplicate. Ugly in the making but perfect when the stock is completed from the new blank. Ive seen match rifles with grips, wrists, combs and forearms modified with body fillers. On a fiberglass stock this can be done and when fit its finish sanded primed and painted.

    My AR match rifle has had the pistol grip modified with a palm swell, angle slightly changed and length changed sightly. When being done it was ugly and didnt look good but when done sanded primed and painted it is good.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    So. Cal.
    Posts
    1,511
    A magnum PAST pad will do wonders to protect your shoulder. Adjust your LOP to suit you, maybe a bit short . put a GOOD recoil pad on your gun then use the PAST pad and everything will be fine.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check