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Thread: Am I the only one who's ROA isn't reliable?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    CCI’s standard #11 is not the same as their magnum version. I’ll see if I can find the chart on dimensions for caps. Not the same at all...

    If you can find CCI’s standard #11 or the more common Rem #10 you should do fine assuming the filing didn’t jack stuff up too much.

  2. #22
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    I use Remington #10 with my ROA and factory nipples. Found out right away the firearm didn't like the CCI #11's. The problem I had with my SS ROA was that if you drew back the hammer, to full cock, and then walked it back down (decided not to fire) it would bind up. Only solution was to remove the cylinder, then reinstall. I contacted Ruger and they blew me off...........never got an answer. This was before I even loaded or ever fired the NIB gun.

    Winelover

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodwha View Post
    CCI’s standard #11 is not the same as their magnum version. I’ll see if I can find the chart on dimensions for caps. Not the same at all...

    If you can find CCI’s standard #11 or the more common Rem #10 you should do fine assuming the filing didn’t jack stuff up too much.
    More common? I've never once seen a Remington #10 in a store. I found a store about 70 miles away that has them, and luckily I'll be heading that way tomorrow. Everything I've ever seen with muzzleloaders has been built around the CCI #11 cap. You can buy those in any store, all nipples I've seen were sized for them. I would not feel too good about a gun that will only use a special cap, but I can live with it if they work.

    So today I tried firing with the nipples a half turn out, no difference at all. On closer inspection, the hammer is pretty close to the nipple (with them fully seated). I cut and bent a feeler gauge to fit, but I still don't feel too great about the measurement due to the recess the nipple is in. It does seem like there is minimal gap between the hammer and nipple. I bought some standard CCI #11 caps, and both those and the magnums measure the same for me. Both are about .177" OD and .166" long. The standards were no better than magnums. I have noticed that more often than not, a second hit will set them off. Again, I've filed my nipples down such that the caps practically fall onto them, the are fully seated.

    The only other thing I can think of is hammer spring. I added washers to pre-load the spring about 1/4", which is all I could get on and still get the the thing back together. The hammer is significantly tougher to pull back with this, clearly this is more spring tension than intended. But it did set off 5 out of 6, which is the best I've got so far. I swapped out to the other set of nipples, and again got 5 out of 6. So the spring definitely helped, but it is such overkill, and still not reliable.

    Any other ideas? All I have left is to try the nipples Ruger is sending me, and try Remington #10 caps.

  4. #24
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    One place to try for #10 rem caps is...
    Ammocraft & Gobbler Specialties in Hopkins MN.
    I know they'll carried them in the past, but I haven't been to that store in a year or so.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Rem #10’s seem to be about as common as the CCI #11 magnums from what little shopping around I’ve done, both in store and online.

    The CCI #11 and magnum version may be the same on the outside but the inside dimensions are different. I forgot to look for the chart people have posted on this. It has interior dimensions as well. I’ll look now.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Can’t seem to find a chart by searching Google for the magnum version. In essence, because it has more priming compound, it’s not as deep.

    https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...J2e-Wad9obOe8M

  7. #27
    Boolit Bub
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    Try this link...

    http://guntoters.com/blog/wp-content...d-Nipples2.pdf

    The most complete tutorial on “Nipples, everything you always wanted to know but were afraid to ask.”

  8. #28
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    i was reading excerpts from this thread to my wife.. had a great laff... then I got her one of my C&B pistol's and showed her what a nipple is..

    may your nipples be longer...
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markopolo View Post
    i was reading excerpts from this thread to my wife.. had a great laff... then I got her one of my C&B pistol's and showed her what a nipple is..

    may your nipples be longer...
    Ha, I sure wouldn't want to be heard talking about blackpowder guns out of context, especially flintlock.

    I'm still waiting for the Ruger nipples, they should be here by the end of the week. I never did get those Remington #10 caps, but I'll be sure to try them at some point. I did get to talk to another ROA owner who claimed to have had his even worse. He said he was lucky to get even one cap to go off. He claims going to Ampco nipples 100% solved his problem. I'm going to buy both the Ampco and Slix shot nipples if the Ruger's don't pan out.

  10. #30
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    The reason you’re needing to take the cylinder out of the gun is that the hammer has to go completely to battery in order to catch the bolt and release the cylinder. The cause is the caps don’t fit and are sitting high on the nipples.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodnbow View Post
    The reason you’re needing to take the cylinder out of the gun is that the hammer has to go completely to battery in order to catch the bolt and release the cylinder. The cause is the caps don’t fit and are sitting high on the nipples.
    Huh? Other than cleaning, I never took the cylinder out of mine.

  12. #32
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    I can’t imagine this happening with a Ruger, but some of the cheaper Italian clones (the leftovers that are rejected by the name-brand importers and are sold for cheep by the No-Name-os) sometimes have a poor hammer fit against the rear of the frame in the hammer slot. The curved hammer web hits the curve in the back of the frame before the striking surface fully contacts the percussion cap. A second trip around the circuit hits another light strike and (maybe) sets it off.

    Kind of the ignition analogue to the barrel that points upward when wedged onto the mandrel, another hallmark of the off-brand el cheapos.

    The solution for the cheapies is judicious filing or grinding on the inner curve of the hammer web so the business end comes down closer to the nipple when the hammer is fully down. Or similar grinding on the protruding end of the mandrel or the set screw that sticks too far out of the rear of frame, if that is the issue. I guess the hammer could be heated, bent forward a little, and rehardened, if no grinding or filing is wanted.

    Since it’s a Ruger, I’d send it in to the factory and let them handle it. Maybe a replacement hammer would do it, or the present hammer refitted.

  13. #33
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    As far as i can tell, the hammer does come within .003" of the nipple face. I even backed out my nipples so they protruded farther, with no change. The hammer hits the caps perfectly centered, and looks perfectly square. I called Ruger, and first they are sending me a new set of nipples, and recommend Remington #10 caps. I am going to try that first. If that doesn't work, I'll try the nipples other's recommend, Ampco and Slix shot. If that still doesn't work, I will ask that Ruger looks at it.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    As I was typing that, the package from Ruger arrived. I put them in, and found that they are certainly small. CCI caps fall right off them. I pinched them slightly, and tried it. Unfortunately only 2 went off the first time, I retried, and only got 3 the second time. So it seems CCI caps are out of the question at this point. These nipples are slightly different than the other two sets. They are smaller, and more blunt. The TOTW nipples fit the best, and had a very sharp edge the cap sat on. The third unknown set was somewhere between in size, and flat faced. All three sets are equally poor with both CCI #11 and CCI #11 magnum caps.

    Next is to try Remington caps.

  15. #35
    Boolit Bub
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    Responding to another poster.

  16. #36
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    To add to the confusion:
    Got my stainless Old Army new in 1981 (By the serial number). A short while later, 2500 Remington #11 caps came my way. Had to pinch them to keep them on the nipples, but they have always gone off. RWS #1075 ,CCI#10 and recent Remington #11 caps are not nearly as reliable. They fit much more tightly, takes two strikes to get them to go off. All this on unaltered Ruger nipples.

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy cas's Avatar
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    Blackhawk hammer spring is 17-18 lbs? (something like that) Old Army should be 19-20-21lbs? (somewhere in there, too much mush in my brain to remember things anymore)
    Former cylindersmith.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunther View Post
    To add to the confusion:
    Got my stainless Old Army new in 1981 (By the serial number). A short while later, 2500 Remington #11 caps came my way. Had to pinch them to keep them on the nipples, but they have always gone off. RWS #1075 ,CCI#10 and recent Remington #11 caps are not nearly as reliable. They fit much more tightly, takes two strikes to get them to go off. All this on unaltered Ruger nipples.
    Try a different cap brand, or take out the nipples, chuck them in a drill, and sand them down until you have a good fit.
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  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy arcticap's Avatar
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    I read that you backed some of the nipples out 1/2 turn without a better result.
    Another trick is to make a nipple shim using a thin piece of flattened wire.
    Get a piece of wire from an old electronic unit, and wrap it around the threaded nipple base once to form a ring.
    Cut it to size and then hammer it down flat, put it on the base and tighten.
    Use two shims, or wrap the wire around the nipple base twice until you raise the nipple cone high enough to make contact with the hammer face.
    It might work with the Ruger nipples, even if only needed for the nipple[s] that won't go off.
    You may need to find the right piece of wire.
    Keep the plastic sheath on the wire if it helps due to using really thin wire.
    If using thicker wire, then strip the plastic sheath off.
    Keep experimenting.
    Another idea would be to thicken the main spring using a small section of another mainspring or similar spring steel.
    File and shape it to fit, and attach it to the original mainspring by wrapping it with wire in a few places along its length.
    It only needs to be long enough to beef up part of the bend in the mainspring where it loads when the hammer is cocked.
    The metal may only need to be 1 - 3 inches.
    There are other ways to shim mainsprings by jamming a piece of leather, between the main spring and the frame.
    Or use a small piece of wood that's shaped like a wedge.
    Whether it's the nipple height or strength of the main spring, both or other issue, it doesn't sound like your gun is off by very much.
    You're getting there.
    Last edited by arcticap; 06-01-2020 at 09:30 AM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcticap View Post
    I read that you backed some of the nipples out 1/2 turn without a better result.
    Another trick is to make a nipple shim using a thin piece of flattened wire.
    Get a piece of wire from an old electronic unit, and wrap it around the threaded nipple base once to form a ring.
    Then hammer it down flat, put it on the base and tighten.
    Use two shims, or wrapped the wire around the nipple base twice until you raise the nipple cone high enough to make contact with the hammer face.
    It might work with the Ruger nipples, even if only needed for the nipple[s] that won't go off.
    You may need to find the right piece of wire.
    Keep the plastic sheath on the wire if it helps due to using really thin wire.
    If using thicker wire, then strip the plastic sheath off.
    Keep experimenting.
    Another idea would be to thicken the main spring using a small section of another mainspring or similar spring steel.
    File and shape it to fit, and attach it to the original mainspring by wrapping it with wire in a few places along its length.
    It only needs to be long enough to beef up part of the bend in the mainspring where it loads when the hammer is cocked.
    The metal may only need to be 1 - 3 inches.
    There are other ways to shim mainsprings by jamming a piece of leather, between the main spring and the frame.
    Or use a small piece of wood that's shaped like a wedge.
    Whether it's the nipple height or strength of the main spring, both or other issue, it doesn't sound like your gun is off by very much.
    You're getting there.
    After trying 4 sets of nipples, including backing them to increase their length, I don't see how a shim could have anything to offer.

    I have tried to strengthen the mainspring. I was able to stuff over 1/4" worth of washers, which substantially increased the spring. It took some force to pull that hammer back. This actually did help somewhat, although still only about 4 out of 6 go off.

    The problem is not the nipples, the problem is not the hammer spring.

    At this point I have lost all faith in the gun. At some point I'll try Remington caps, and if that doesn't work, it will be a 50/50 if I send it to Ruger or just send it off to the next guy.

    At least I know now why the price was so low.

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